Player View not Dynamic?

[Grgbobe]

I used Realm Works as a DM in live action (Turtle Man, anyone?) last night. Since it was our first time with RW, first time with Pathfinder, first time with d20Pro and first time with Hero Lab, the whole night was kind of a hot mess, but we are all jazzed about the future.

One thing that really surprised me, though, was that updates in the GM console (like revealing a snippet) don't dynamically update in the player view, i.e. don't show up on the player's laptops until a sync is performed. Is that correct? Is that as planned? So, the only way for them to actually see updates is if I have a 2nd monitor and I place my GM "Player View" on it?

Are there plans for this to be dynamic or will it always only be a look into the "past" for the players? Will the browser version change this?

Thanks & my apologies if this has been discussed before; I did perform a search but didn't see this particular topic.

Grgbobe

[Silveras]

Yeah, this has been discussed a bit before.

Terms (for Clarity)

Player View is a specific tool within the GM Version of the application that allows the GM to show things to the players "live", best used on a second monitor.

Player Mode is a setting in the GM Version of the application that allows the GM Version to "act like" the Player Version (though it sometimes can't hide everything, based on past comments).

Player Version and GM Version are the ways the application operates, based on your logged-in account and whether that account is the Owner of the Realm (GM Version) or a guest in that Realm (Player Version). It is the same software.. it just behaves differently based on your account settings. Even if you have a GM Account, if you're logged-in as a guest/player in a Realm, you only see the Player Version functionality. A Player Account is always a Player, while a GM Account can be either a Player or GM, depending on the Realm.

I make a point of the terms because there is usually some mis-use of them when the discussions start.. such as you calling the Player copies "player's view"... which is, unfortunately, the name of something else related to the topic. So before anyone can give good advice, we need to make sure we're all clear on what's what.

So, yeah, live update to the player's copies is NOT supported at this time. It has been requested, and the eventual web access may help that somewhat -- though it is likely that the GM would still need to sync changes before they appear in the web view. Even when GM web access is added (someday... no timeframe yet), it will likely have less features than the desktop client (caveats: based on past comments, subject to change, etc.).

Realm Works is not a VTT or competitor to VTTs.. it is not intended for live updates to the Players' copy at the table. The main intended use of the Player Version is for checking things between sessions. If you're already using a VTT like d20Pro, planning to use that for your dynamic displays might be the best bet.If you have a second monitor, or don't mind adding one, then the Player View tool in the GM Version might be a good solution for you.

[kbs666]

Rob has never said anything about live updates. As far as I know syncs will always be required before player version will update.

If you think about you'll see why. RW is not maintaining a live connection between systems. It simply downloads the realm from the cloud when you sync, and if you've got player level access, lets you see the revealed bits. The only way to update is for the GM to make changes on his local version, sync those changes to the cloud and then for the players to DL those changes.

Changing that would be a non trivial change to how RW works. I wouldn't expect it any time soon.

[Grgbobe]

Player Version (Edition from the web site, I think) is what I was talking about. Thanks for clarifying the verbiage.

I found the marketing material on Player Version (Edition) giving the impression that updates were in-game and revealing a snippet, for example, appeared in the Player Edition right away. After running a game (finally), it makes total sense that it doesn't do that based on the "sync" functionality.

In my head, I imagined how the game would go based on this marketing blurb: "The need for a binder (or two) of notes is over! Realm Works Player Edition gives you access to everything your GM has disclosed during play. Visualize your GM's world as you navigate through the story with full-text searching, full content linking, and more! You can even tie your own personal notes to the people, places, and events that make up the adventure. With your GM's story at your fingertips, you can come with everything you need for your next game!"

It's unfortunate and changes how my game sessions will go, but I "get it".

So, let me ask those who have been using Player Edition regularly, do you ever sync mid-game or anything or do you simply use it for offline and for referencing prior sessions?

Thanks,

Grg

[kbs666]

If you get you players to use it at all you're doing better than me.

[Bidmaron]

Originally Posted by kbs666

....The only way to update is for the GM to make changes on his local version, sync those changes to the cloud and then for the players to DL those changes.

If the GM will have a web version and that version does anything but view, it will have to do one of three things:
1. Make the GM's computer a server for the database - wow, I'd be shocked if a company with the resources of LWD ever tackled something like that.
2. Edit the cloud version of the GM's world, requiring a reverse-sync back to the normal working location at some point.
3. Somehow buffer the changes, store them in the cloud, and when the GM accesses his normal realm with an internet connection, he is alerted that there are web changes pending and would he like to install them. - this is maybe even harder than option one to implement.

In any event, if either of these three are done, it would only be a modicum of additional complexity to let the user see the 'live' version.

[edit]But I would like to be wrong....

I don't think we will see a GM version with edit ability in several goblin generations....

[daplunk]

My players all have it and no. I never sync in-game. Think of the player version as a journal for the players that populates at the end of each session. It's not there to deal with now. That's the DM's job while at the table. It's a post lookup tool that enables the players to go back a year from now and lookup that NPC they met or to checkout what they know about an item.

We all agree that live sync would be cool. But frankly, until the Web View arrives there's no need for it at my table. We can't put 9 laptops around the table. Takes away too much from the game.

Now what we do use RW for is the Player View. As you can see below I have mounted a second screen to my roof looking out to my players. Using Realm Works I can very efficiently show pictures and content to the players from here. It's awesome for monsters, npcs, places, handouts, etc.

Personally I still consider Realm Works to be 'MY' private DM binder. It's not there to benefit my players. We have started to change that now we have player versions but its purpose and primary use is still to benefit me. My player's are the afterthought for me since I consider it my role to relay the necessary information to them.

[Dark Lord Galen]

Originally Posted by kbs666

If you get you players to use it at all you're doing better than me.

Ditto that....
My players have totally abandoned it... even several saying they were fortunate "to only waste $6"....
Others simply gave up as the features "promised" have yet to materialize.

Granted, we are still gaming on table locally... not everyone has that luxury. For those that might utilize RW more as a Play by email or remotely TMMV...

Lastly, until custom calendars and more importantly, PC level journals, I cannot utilize it from a DM perspective for players either. Our open sandbox gaming style means not all PCs know all information "revealed" and unfortunately, within the current RW state of capabilities, it's an "all or nothing" reveal state.

DLG

[Dark Lord Galen]

Originally Posted by daplunk

..........
Personally I still consider Realm Works to be 'MY' private DM binder. It's not there to benefit my players. .......

Exactly my use of RW as well...

Nice table by the way...
DLG

[Grey Mage]

I have had the exact opposite experience as most here it would seem. I run two games over the internet via VTT and my players in both games have been using RW for over a year and loving it.

They enjoy being able to look up spells, feats, magic items and such and then also seen any changes (ie., house rules, mythic changes, and/or errata) that have been applied. Plus as custom magic items have entered the game it has been easier for them to track.

Their major complaint has been that calendars have not yet been brought online as it were.