Timing and the chld attribute, and smap for costs

For my GROPOS files, I would like to control an attribute at one level,
and have that level's children have the attribute at the same level.

In other words, when a platoon is set with a certain attribute at 3, all
of the members (child units) should also have the same attribute at 3.

Unfortunately, I'm not getting the chld option attribute to work. What
order (Option category/priority) should these attributes be in?:

add a platoon (child) to the company (parent)
add a unit(grand-child) to the platoon(child)
a tabl attribute to modify the stat
the options the tabl selects from
an option that calculates a second stat from the first
the chld options that transfer the two modified stats to the grand-children

Or, am I maybe getting something else wrong?

Also, I would like to make this sort of map for the cost of a platoon
vs. an attribute:
1 (Green) = 28pts
2 (Regular = 57pts
3 (Veteran) = 86pts
4 (Elite) = 129pts
(and of course the prices vary wildly between units, so I can't set up
anything universal)

I can of course set up something that will translate a stat into a cost,
and I think that's the way to get this, but I'm not sure how to get that
stat to map.

P.S. to save space on my rosters, I'm considering adding the third tier
(grand-children) via items, so that the user doesn't need to view them
all the time. Will I still be able to adjust their stat values with the
chld attribute?

Thanks, and sorry if it's unclear
Mathias Gehl
mgehl@home.com


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[rob]

Sorry this took so long, but I left for GenCon only hours after you posted
this, so I haven't had the chance to look at it yet. Answers are below....

At 10:23 PM 7/30/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>For my GROPOS files, I would like to control an attribute at one level,
>and have that level's children have the attribute at the same level.
>
>In other words, when a platoon is set with a certain attribute at 3, all
>of the members (child units) should also have the same attribute at 3.
>
>Unfortunately, I'm not getting the chld option attribute to work. What
>order (Option category/priority) should these attributes be in?:
>
>add a platoon (child) to the company (parent)
>add a unit(grand-child) to the platoon(child)
>a tabl attribute to modify the stat
>the options the tabl selects from
>an option that calculates a second stat from the first
>the chld options that transfer the two modified stats to the grand-children
>
>Or, am I maybe getting something else wrong?

The "chld" attribute is special in that it queues up the adjustment for
subsequent application to the child units. Therefore, you need to apply the
"chld" attribute BEFORE the child unit is actually processed. This means
that the option with the "chld" attribute must occur first, with the option
having the "unit" attribute occurring second. The net sequence therefore
becomes:

1. Add platoon unit.
2. Process option on platoon with the "tabl" attribute. This inherently
triggers the selected table option to be processed.
3. Process option to calculate second stat based on the table selection.
4. Process option(s) with the "chld" attribute to effect changes on the
child units.
5. Add the child units to the platoon. They should properly inherit the
results of the "chld" attribute.

>Also, I would like to make this sort of map for the cost of a platoon
>vs. an attribute:
>1 (Green) = 28pts
>2 (Regular = 57pts
>3 (Veteran) = 86pts
>4 (Elite) = 129pts
>(and of course the prices vary wildly between units, so I can't set up
>anything universal)
>
>I can of course set up something that will translate a stat into a cost,
>and I think that's the way to get this, but I'm not sure how to get that
>stat to map.

The simplest solution for mapping is to use "xlat". You can have the morale
grade represented by a stat value in the range 1-4 (or 0-3). You can use
"smap" to display this value as the text name, plus you can use "xlat" to
map the stat to the cost. You can then use the "cost" attribute to
calculate the option cost based on the mapped stat value.

>P.S. to save space on my rosters, I'm considering adding the third tier
>(grand-children) via items, so that the user doesn't need to view them
>all the time. Will I still be able to adjust their stat values with the
>chld attribute?

I don't believe that the "chld" attribute will propogate downward into
units attached to items. In addition, the use of items introduces yet
another line into to the display. My gut reaction is that using items in
this way is a less than ideal solution. Please outline the overall model
you are envisioning and I'll give it some thought. I now have the Gropos
book - thanks to the nice folks at AoG - so I can read up on things if you
point me to the appropriate pages. :-)

Thanks, Rob


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Rob Bowes wrote:
Timing and the chld attribute - working, thanks.

Cost-mapping - I missed seeing xlat when searching for the right option,
thanks again.

The reason to add the units as items is ctrl-h, so that the user can
hide them if necessary. As an example, I'll use a Minbari mech infantry
company (pg 109). This is what the display currently looks like:

Mech infantry company
Support Element A
Falsin SP Artillery
HQ Section
Vision Command Tank
Chrystalis IFV
Mech Infantry Platoons A & C
Minbari Standard Infantry
Minbari Gravideres
Chrystalis IFV
Mech Infantry Platoon B
Minbari Standard Infantry
Minbari Gravideres
Tal'Falni Platform
Chrystalis IFV

That's 15 lines, the recon element I've selected is not shown, and AB
gives the error that there are too many units to display (also, I'll
need to separate platoons A & C so that they can have different morale
ratings).
If I add all those units as items, It will add an extra line to the full
display, but the extra line and all the units it includes can be hidden
and unhidden by the user, so that they can look at everything.

I'd really like to find a better way to do this, but since a company
gives you a distinct set of platoons to take, I didn't think that could
be done easily with leader-follower, and each platoon of course includes
its units, so I can't think of a better way to do that.

>> P.S. to save space on my rosters, I'm considering adding the third tier
>> (grand-children) via items, so that the user doesn't need to view them
>> all the time. Will I still be able to adjust their stat values with the
>> chld attribute?
>
>
> I don't believe that the "chld" attribute will propogate downward into
> units attached to items. In addition, the use of items introduces yet
> another line into to the display. My gut reaction is that using items in
> this way is a less than ideal solution. Please outline the overall model
> you are envisioning and I'll give it some thought. I now have the Gropos
> book - thanks to the nice folks at AoG - so I can read up on things if you
> point me to the appropriate pages. :-)
>
> Thanks, Rob

Thanks for all your help.
Mathias Gehl
mgehl@home.com


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[rob]

There are a couple of ways to model this, but none of them are really
ideal. I think the decision really needs to be dictated by the structure of
the individual army books. If each force can have individual squads
equipped in varying fashions, you'll likely need to go with option #2
below. Otherwise, you can probably get away with option #1. I would guess
that the folks at AoG would be willing to give you some info on the army
books towards this end. :-)

Option #1. This model is similar to yours below, except that it collapses
out all units that aren't absolutely required. The structure would look
something like:

Mech Infantry Company
HQ Vision Command Tank
Chrystalis IFV
Platoon A Infantry
Gravideres
Chrystalis IFV
Platoon B Infantry
Gravideres
Chrystalis IFV
Tal'Falni Platform
Platoon C Infantry
Gravideres
Chrystalis IFV
Support A - Falsin
Support B - Jump Recon

The above structure JUST fits into the 15-unit limit of AB. The HQ's morale
grade is selected for the Vision Command Tank and inherited by the
Chrystalis. Similarly, each platoon's morale is selected for the infantry
and then inherited by the children.

Option #2. You COULD require each component of the company to be selected
independently and then use the leader/follower mechanism to track things
appropriately. Each HQ would be selected and then all the proper components
would be assigned to the appropriate HQ. You could easily track the ratios
of everything to ensure that all the proper pieces are selected and
assigned correctly. This gets a little more cumbersome for the user,
although it WOULD allow complete flexibility within the equipping of each
platoon. This may be necessary if the army books allow substantial
variations to be selected.

Option #3. This is sort of a hybrid option. I'm not sure if it's truly a
"good" solution unless someone creates a custom extension for Gropos that
prints out the datacards for each unit. But here goes. The idea is that you
purchase companies and select the morale grade for each component on an
abstract basis. For example, the structure might look like this:

Mech Infantry Company
HQ
Platoon A
Platoon B
Platoon C
Support A
Support B

Theoretically, you could even have this be a SINGLE unit with no children
and simply have a separate option for each component. You could then use
"trat" to require the user to add the appropriate components separately as
individual units with the proper morale grade. Basically, the roster would
consist of two "parts". The first part would be the overall composition and
points. The second part would be individual units with the appropriate
stats to reflect all of the selected units. This second set of units would
have zero cost and be used purely for quick reference during the game
and/or for output of datacards for use in the game.

For an example of what I mean about custom datacards, see the new CAV data
files. Basically, you'd have an AB extension print out the datacards that
are shown in the Gropos book for each unit in the force.

I hope these ideas prove helpful. I really kinda like Option #3 myself, but
it might be confusing to the average user. The advantage of it is that the
roster can be completely designed with a minimum of fuss and then all the
appropriate "Part#2" units can be added quickly after the roster is nailed
down.

Just my thoughts,
Rob


At 08:54 AM 8/8/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>The reason to add the units as items is ctrl-h, so that the user can
>hide them if necessary. As an example, I'll use a Minbari mech infantry
>company (pg 109). This is what the display currently looks like:
>
>Mech infantry company
> Support Element A
> Falsin SP Artillery
> HQ Section
> Vision Command Tank
> Chrystalis IFV
> Mech Infantry Platoons A & C
> Minbari Standard Infantry
> Minbari Gravideres
> Chrystalis IFV
> Mech Infantry Platoon B
> Minbari Standard Infantry
> Minbari Gravideres
> Tal'Falni Platform
> Chrystalis IFV
>
> That's 15 lines, the recon element I've selected is not shown,
> and AB
>gives the error that there are too many units to display (also, I'll
>need to separate platoons A & C so that they can have different morale
>ratings).
> If I add all those units as items, It will add an extra line to
> the full
>display, but the extra line and all the units it includes can be hidden
>and unhidden by the user, so that they can look at everything.
>
>I'd really like to find a better way to do this, but since a company
>gives you a distinct set of platoons to take, I didn't think that could
>be done easily with leader-follower, and each platoon of course includes
>its units, so I can't think of a better way to do that.


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