Lone Wolf Development Forums  

Go Back   Lone Wolf Development Forums > Realm Works Forums > Realm Works Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
EclecticGamer
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 8

Old August 23rd, 2013, 09:25 AM
Hey Lone Wolf,

I have a question. One of the important features listed for the future of Realm Works is the sharing of content.

Do you have any indication of how using copyrighted material such as maps, monsters or items from existing RPGs will work?

For example, I love Wizards' Eberron campaign setting. I would love if I could find adventures, sessions or encounters for Eberron.

But would content creators be able to use maps, images or names?

It has also be mentioned that users could sell their content. Are there any plans to allow them to create content for sale through partnerships with these companies? Or would they have to sell something that is a "ronEber" campaign, that says to insert these maps from your book?

I'm just interested how this would work since I think a lot of people would like to have material using existing campaign settings.
EclecticGamer is offline   #1 Reply With Quote
Chemlak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 432

Old August 23rd, 2013, 10:42 AM
IANAL, but I believe that the way it's pretty much going to have to work is that data files/Realms using copyrighted material are either going to have to be "user and players only" (not for sale, and you have to do all the work yourself) or "officially licensed", wherein whoever is selling the material has obtained a license from (or actually is) the copyright holder.

LWD will (I suspect) set up a "report Realm" function for stuff sold through RW, and any copyright violators will get that Realm removed from the content sharing service and might even have their accounts banned.

I am clearly aware that this will not prevent the creation of a "Black Market" for copyright-violating Realms that get shared by other means (even with what we have right now in the Beta release, it would be trivial to host a backup of a Realm somewhere online for people to download), but since LWD could be held responsible by the relevant copyright holders, they will take harsh steps against anyone they determine has breached the EULA.

So my first thought is "don't try and sell someone else's work unless they've given you written permission" and secondly "don't even share copyrighted material that you've put into RW yourself, except with your players, unless the copyright holder has given you written permission".
Chemlak is offline   #2 Reply With Quote
jerrycnh
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 24

Old August 23rd, 2013, 11:21 AM
I would think the easiest way to get past this particular dilemma would be to have Lone Wolf itself strike a blanket deal with content providers using their established relationships, IE "Let users repost some of your copyrighted material in their saleable campaigns and we will remit a royalty fee of X% of the profits from sale."

Then let users self-report their material as they post it and send the content provider their royalties as needed.

Win-win all around.
jerrycnh is offline   #3 Reply With Quote
EclecticGamer
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 8

Old August 23rd, 2013, 11:44 AM
I am by no means advocating distributing copyrighted material, just to be clear.

It would be nice to be able to have a way for them to be available. I know that LWD has relationships with RPG companies to for Hero Lab, so it would be interesting to see if they can come up with something to allow some of that material to be used. Possibly requiring a license to use material marked as including a company's material.

The reason I bring up the for sale material in Realm Works, is that it would be a shame for dedicated, for-profit content creators to be dissuaded from creating material for these popular products.
EclecticGamer is offline   #4 Reply With Quote
Silveras
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,523

Old August 23rd, 2013, 01:18 PM
One of the Stretch Goals of the Kickstarter is the publication of Frog God Games' Razor Coast in RealmWorks. That's the only announced product that I know of, but one goal of the repository/marketplace is for publishers to make their content available for purchase by the user community.

The tricky part with fan-based content is that the proper names and artwork are usually NOT covered by things like the Open Games License. With the OGL, you are free to create your own characters and scenarios using the rules and mechanics of the Open Content provided. Fans are generally NOT free to use the names of nations, worlds, or other unique characters/entities of a setting. And, typically, the artwork is not Open either.

RealmWorks is positioned in some of the descriptions as being a new medium, comparable to print or PDF, for delivering game content. As such, a lot of what you can and can't do will mirror what you can and can't do now under the OGL and similar licenses. Note that not all supported games will be OGL games, so what you can and can't do with specific game systems may also be different.
Silveras is offline   #5 Reply With Quote
SeeleyOne
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 891

Old August 23rd, 2013, 01:37 PM
It is one thing to put in an adventure or setting for use with your own gaming group. It is effectively a tool to organize your notes and ideas, and is the intended purpose of RW as I understand it.

EclecticGamer was wondering if we can share it with other GMs. That is, as mentioned above, a tricky situation. People don't want to get ripped off and it is understandable that sharing can be viewed as pirating.

There is another side to this. At least for me, and probably for many people that contribute to Community Data, it feels like a more worthwhile endeavor if I can share my efforts with others. Did I spend a week plunking in the data? That may seem like a waste if I am the only person to benefit from it, but if I share it with one person, it seems like it was twice as useful. The more people that I share it with, the more worthwhile use of my time it has become.

People fear that there are people that will see this as a way to obtain data that they did not pay for. But there is a flip side to this. Many of us support things because we love it. I often buy the pdf + print bundles. The books are mostly for my friends and family as my vision loss has made it so that pdfs and electronic format have become ideal for me. I can zoom in where and as needed, and it is superior to using a magnifier (even my cool magnifier screen thing).

In a few cases I have downloaded the free data sets only to realize that after I looked them over just for the heck of it, I decided that I really liked it. One notable example is Deadlands for Savage Worlds (notable because after which I have bought a ton of stuff for it). Was this a waste? NO! The data was free, but I still bought everything (twice in several cases).

Evil wins because good rolls poorly .... or the players are not paying enough attention to the game.
SeeleyOne is offline   #6 Reply With Quote
Spence
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 119

Old August 23rd, 2013, 03:41 PM
There is a very big difference between user created information that refers to a setting and the setting itself. Let's say I buy the Gizmo setting and want to run an adventure in it. To note in RW that the PC's meet at the Gigit Inn (refer Gizmo Campaign Guide pg 175) is fine and can be easily shared. But to enter the entire book or even chapter while cloth into RW with explicit permission is not.
Spence is offline   #7 Reply With Quote
Jaynay27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 119

Old August 23rd, 2013, 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence View Post
There is a very big difference between user created information that refers to a setting and the setting itself. Let's say I buy the Gizmo setting and want to run an adventure in it. To note in RW that the PC's meet at the Gigit Inn (refer Gizmo Campaign Guide pg 175) is fine and can be easily shared. But to enter the entire book or even chapter while cloth into RW with explicit permission is not.
Don't hate me if am I am wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that when you purchase campaign information/content there is am implied understanding that the content will be shared amongst your direct gaming group (whether you purchase digitally or physically). This kinda makes sense as otherwise you wouldn't be able to actually play anything you bought!

So my understanding (and I could be wrong) is that content you purchase via Realm Works is able to be shared with your players (via player/GM that will be inbuilt to the program) and the same possibly applies to content you enter manually from products you legally purchased.

I don't necessarily believe that you will have to refer your players back to the original source however, as you would not do this in ordinary play.

If my players visited the 'Gigit Inn' in regular tabletop play I would not have to refer them back to the published material every time I reference that content, and in the case of adventure content my players would not have access to that content anyway.

Of course we still won't be revealing ALL the content to the players, as secrets and plot devices will be hidden and remain for GM eyes only. So the players will only ever have access to limited content, as revealed through play.
Jaynay27 is offline   #8 Reply With Quote
kate
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 41

Old August 23rd, 2013, 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaynay27 View Post
Don't hate me if am I am wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that when you purchase campaign information/content there is am implied understanding that the content will be shared amongst your direct gaming group (whether you purchase digitally or physically). This kinda makes sense as otherwise you wouldn't be able to actually play anything you bought!

So my understanding (and I could be wrong) is that content you purchase via Realm Works is able to be shared with your players (via player/GM that will be inbuilt to the program) and the same possibly applies to content you enter manually from products you legally purchased.
I think the question was about sharing copyrighted material with other RW users outside of your direct gaming group (which RW is supposed to allow).

In which case I think you might have to stick with referring them to the relevant sourcebook.
kate is offline   #9 Reply With Quote
Spence
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 119

Old August 24th, 2013, 12:09 PM
@Jaynay27
I was responding to the OP's comments about if he purchased a copy (dead tree version) of the Eberron campaign setting and entered all of the data himself and then wanted to make full copies of that data freely available to others. Players and GM's

I apologize if I misunderstood EclecticGamer's OP.

But that would be like buying a copy if the same book, scanning it and giving it to all your friends.

What you are saying is completely different. Yes, if I buy a copy of the Eberron campaign setting, it is understood that there is information that must be passed on to players including handouts. But I have never handed out the full and complete contents of a campaign or adventure to the players. Why run an adventure or a campaign that the players already know everything?

Many of the game companies I follow/buy from address the players needs by creating PDF "Players Guides" that you can purchase or are included in the original purchase and give to your players.

But in most cases, if you want a copy of the content created and sold by someone else, you pay for it unless they specifically give permission.

Providing players with enough information to play within the setting/campaign is perfectly acceptable.

Completely copying a purchased setting/campaign into RW for personal use and then providing players with enough information to play within the setting/campaign is perfectly acceptable.

Completely copying a purchased setting/campaign into RW and then giving the complete data set to others is not.

Completely copying a purchased setting/campaign into RW and then selling the complete data set to others without explicit permission of the original creator or current owner of the property is illegal.

Illegal distribution of copyrighted content via RW could have negative ramifications on LWD if they did not take steps to prevent it.

Even though RW and its content is electronic and not hard copy, copy-write and ownership of intellectual property still applies.

But I am just another player and in no way representative of any company. So this is just my opinion of how I understand things. The folks at LWD will weigh in if and when they decide that they need to.

I would suggest directly messaging Rob or LWD if and when you have a question like the OP. LWD is juggling a lot of balls right now and they may not see or note a post or thread here. But they do read through all of their messages/emails.

Spence
exercising superhuman strength to shut up now
Spence is offline   #10 Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® - Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
wolflair.com copyright ©1998-2016 Lone Wolf Development, Inc. View our Privacy Policy here.