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UltraPrime
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Old May 7th, 2011, 08:43 AM
I shall get that sorted.

If you can keep your head while all about you are loosing their's, then you have probably completely misunderstood the situation.

WFB Armies: High Elves (4,500), Orcs & Goblins (6,000) and Daemons of Chaos (6,000)
40K Armies: Ultramarines (6,500), Blood Angels (7,000), Dark Angels (4,000), Imperial Guard (3,500), Orks (4,500), Tyranids (4,000), Dark Eldar (2,500) and Tau Empire (2,500)
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Arijharn
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Old May 7th, 2011, 05:45 PM
So, I posted a big post on this thread a couple of days ago, it said that it would have to be verified by a moderator before it gets posted (It had a large quote in it), how long does this process usually last?
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UltraPrime
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Old May 7th, 2011, 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arijharn View Post
So, I posted a big post on this thread a couple of days ago, it said that it would have to be verified by a moderator before it gets posted (It had a large quote in it), how long does this process usually last?
Not long.

If you can keep your head while all about you are loosing their's, then you have probably completely misunderstood the situation.

WFB Armies: High Elves (4,500), Orcs & Goblins (6,000) and Daemons of Chaos (6,000)
40K Armies: Ultramarines (6,500), Blood Angels (7,000), Dark Angels (4,000), Imperial Guard (3,500), Orks (4,500), Tyranids (4,000), Dark Eldar (2,500) and Tau Empire (2,500)
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Arijharn
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Old May 9th, 2011, 04:20 AM
Well, on the oft chance it never gets approved, I was talking to HobbyService Australia via a couple of emails about that whole Vermin Lord thing. While I realise that it wont be the word-of-god until (if ever) it gets put in an Errata, they thought it would be legal for (truly massive) Skaven forces to have multiple Vermin Lord's within an army list simply because of the reasons I listed above (I.e., the Doom Glaive isn't a choice as all Vermin Lord's have them, and Vermin Lord's aren't marked as being unique). The example I was given was that a Vermin Lord is much like a default Chaos Knight, i.e., they all have magic weapons of the same type too and following that, isn't it the same as Grey Seer's that all come equipped with Warpstone Tokens?

Because I think it was the massive quote thing I supplied which meant that it hasn't been approved yet, if people are interested in reading the email, I'm more than happy to forward it to interested parties. Like I said though; it isn't the word-of-god, but I think it's the next best thing.

EDIT: HobbyService didn't supply the Warptoken's as an example; I just thought about it. Warptokens aren't completely analogous I know because they're specifically mentioned as not counting towards the Arcane allowance, but they are still magical items, and all Grey Seer's have access to it by default.

Last edited by Arijharn; May 9th, 2011 at 04:24 AM. Reason: EDIT: changed some stuff for clarity.
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gkgnight
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Old May 9th, 2011, 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arijharn View Post
EDIT: HobbyService didn't supply the Warptoken's as an example; I just thought about it. Warptokens aren't completely analogous I know because they're specifically mentioned as not counting towards the Arcane allowance, but they are still magical items, and all Grey Seer's have access to it by default.
^ this.... keep in mind that no matter how mcuh you might like/ want something, here at the Army builder data files we use the GW rules as written because they arte the ones used by most Gamers following the GW gameset.

Thus, even though we may or may not agree the GW rules msut still be applied. Therefore once again the Vermin Lord as Written is unique due to various rule violations until otherwise FaQ / EWrrata'd by an official GW release.

Thank You, and this matter is now at rest.
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Arijharn
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Old May 9th, 2011, 06:24 PM
How is the matter at rest? Saying that they're 'unique' is against those same rules you're touting because Vermin Lords aren't unique. Isn't that a bit... hypocritical?

Like I said; if you or anyone else is doubting I'm telling the truth, I'm more than happy to forward the email. I would just post it, but apparently the post where I did was eaten by the forum gremlins (or Trolls).

I thought that by using the Warptokens and Grey Seer's as an example I'd illustrate my point. You can have multiple Grey Seer's in your army list for example; there's no 'unique' rules about them (for example; you can only ever field one Warlord Queek) and yet, all Grey Seer's come equipped with this magical item. It's only the magic item inside the magic item list that says they don't count towards arcane items, should we therefore declare in hindsight that you can't choose Warptokens for a Grey Seer?

Either way; it still doesn't dispel the example that HobbyService themselves supplied: All Chaos Knights have magic weapons and yet you can still choose multiple Chaos Knights.
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gkgnight
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Old May 10th, 2011, 02:37 AM
Choas Knights: Wuote from Army Book page 48
"Ensorcelled Weapons count as magical weapons...."
I.E. They are not magical weapons but they count as magical (such as vs ethreal undead units).

Thus they do not have magical weapons but rather have weapons that count as magical -of which there is a differance.

--

As for the Skaven issue you keep bringing up...


Skaven Army Book, Entry for Vermin Lord, Top of paragraph: "Magic Item"

Warhammer Rulebook, page 500: "Magic Items are considered to be unique..."

Unfortunetly we must code the RaW over RaI


I ask that if you wish to have a disscussion about it please sart a new thread as this will help the data file authorers keep track of bugs. Thank you.

Last edited by gkgnight; May 10th, 2011 at 02:55 AM.
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UltraPrime
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Old May 10th, 2011, 10:41 AM
Just to chip in, I did read carefully, and I looked at rulebooks and FAQs to find any possible loophole. But there is none. It may be frustrating, but the files stay as they are until GW gives an official response. Of course, how you choose to play it at home is your own affair.

If you can keep your head while all about you are loosing their's, then you have probably completely misunderstood the situation.

WFB Armies: High Elves (4,500), Orcs & Goblins (6,000) and Daemons of Chaos (6,000)
40K Armies: Ultramarines (6,500), Blood Angels (7,000), Dark Angels (4,000), Imperial Guard (3,500), Orks (4,500), Tyranids (4,000), Dark Eldar (2,500) and Tau Empire (2,500)
UltraPrime is offline   #108
Cenobite451
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Old May 12th, 2011, 03:38 PM
Found one: all WoC list a flat 6+ Ward when you try to combine the Mark of Tzeentch with a shield, which is of course wrong. It does this even on cavalry, who shouldn't be interacting with the Parry rules at all. And it completely overwrites any other ward save. So a wee bit irritating for a Tzeentch player.






[EDIT: Oh, and the entire list is devoid of Stomp/Thunderstomp. (Though interestingly enough, the warshrine does mention that it DOESN'T get it.)]

Last edited by Cenobite451; May 12th, 2011 at 04:06 PM.
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Grey Seer
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Old May 16th, 2011, 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yobtar View Post
What he said.

The unique rules for magic items dictate how many Verminlords you can bring. Until it is FAQ'd or the subject of an errata the AB file is correct.

I have stolen this from another discussion forum, but, with respect to Vermin Lord and their Doom Glaives "Magic items that come as equipment can have multiples. Like weeping blades on your death runners, things catchers on your master moulders, plague censers on your priests, warlock augmented weapon on your engineers, etc."
Grey Seer is offline   #110
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