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MNBlockHead
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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Old February 9th, 2017, 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaffneyks View Post
Sad thing here is that the Content Market is not even live and people are either
1) upset with LWD about Pathfinder Content Market/pdf fiasco.
2) upset with no D & D 5e content being released and the fact that they are not going to have any WOTC products.
3) Talking about a competitors product on the LWD forum and linking to the competitors website.

Not sure the Content Market is turning out to be what LWD had envisioned, maybe they should see if Fantasy Grounds or Roll20 can give them a referral kickback.
Nah. Not so gloomy as all that.

1) Many RW users bought it to build their own campaigns and are looking for drop-in content. RIGHT OFF THE BAT I'll get content that I can use, some of it for free.

2) LWD has an incredible community that is loyal and has greatly increased the value of other RW tools like Hero Lab with community-created content. I fully expect that one the CM is opened to the wider community that there will be a large amount a free content from this same community.

3) Once the CM is open and gets some press and folks see that Paizo is publishing content in it, they will take their material from Drive Thru RPG and publish in RW. Why wouldn't you take your material and make it available in another market. There is a bit of hurdle in that you can't just take your PDF and throw it in the CM, but I expect you'll soon see lots of inexpensive options in the CM from the 'might as well see if I can sell my adventure for $3' crowd.

4) Complaints about pricing policy do not necessarily translate into buying behavior. Lot's of people have complained about the cost of 5e books--but they are selling very well. Lots of people took umbrage at the cost of 5e material in Fantasy Grounds, but many people still bought it and SmiteWorks seems to be making money from the license. The one reaction to pricing that really is a threat to publishers is piracy, but that isn't such a threat with RW. I'm sure some people will find ways to steal content, but it is much more difficult than getting your hands on a pirated PDF.

I think the CM will do just fine.

The real challenge for LWD is convincing enough gamers of the benefits of a campaign-management system and an at-table application to run your games. RW fits in what appears to be small niche between traditional-pen-and-paper and VTTs.

RW Project: Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition homebrew world
Other Tools: CampaignCartographer, Cityographer, Dungeonographer, Evernote

Last edited by MNBlockHead; February 9th, 2017 at 10:46 PM. Reason: typos
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Galymyr
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Old February 10th, 2017, 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNBlockHead View Post
Nah. Not so gloomy as all that.

1) Many RW users bought it to build their own campaigns and are looking for drop-in content. RIGHT OFF THE BAT I'll get content that I can use, some of it for free.

2) LWD has an incredible community that is loyal and has greatly increased the value of other RW tools like Hero Lab with community-created content. I fully expect that one the CM is opened to the wider community that there will be a large amount a free content from this same community.

3) Once the CM is open and gets some press and folks see that Paizo is publishing content in it, they will take their material from Drive Thru RPG and publish in RW. Why wouldn't you take your material and make it available in another market. There is a bit of hurdle in that you can't just take your PDF and throw it in the CM, but I expect you'll soon see lots of inexpensive options in the CM from the 'might as well see if I can sell my adventure for $3' crowd.

4) Complaints about pricing policy do not necessarily translate into buying behavior. Lot's of people have complained about the cost of 5e books--but they are selling very well. Lots of people took umbrage at the cost of 5e material in Fantasy Grounds, but many people still bought it and SmiteWorks seems to be making money from the license. The one reaction to pricing that really is a threat to publishers is piracy, but that isn't such a threat with RW. I'm sure some people will find ways to steal content, but it is much more difficult than getting your hands on a pirated PDF.

I think the CM will do just fine.

The real challenge for LWD is convincing enough gamers of the benefits of a campaign-management system and an at-table application to run your games. RW fits in what appears to be small niche between traditional-pen-and-paper and VTTs.
You are 100% correct. The moment this goes live I'll be buying The Emerald Spire and the .pdf even though I own the hardback and the flip map pack. I've been stalling my home game hoping that it would be part of the initial release. But none of that is going to stop me from grumbling about having to buy the .pdf
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rob
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Old February 10th, 2017, 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharmiones View Post
Well I'm a Paizo Subscriber for 4 years now for most of their lines I get the PDF's for most of the stuff "for free". So for "newer" stuff I'm not so much worried. However as I do not have the PDFs for the "older" stuff like CRB, APG and so on but I do have those as physical books I'm not amused about the fact that I would have to buy the PDF for those as well. I wonder if the Core Book Stuff will require the PDFs as well when it is already available only as a PRD. For Adventure Path or Modules or even the Campaign Setting and Player Companion line I can understand that but for the stuff where that content is available on their official site I'm a bit disappointed.
FYI, the PDF component is NOT applicable to the Pathfinder rulebook line. That material is almost entirely OGL, so it's a different animal within the license and doesn't have the attached PDF dependency. Any material that includes a substantial portion of non-OGL content - such as APs, modules, Campaign Setting, and Player Companion - does have the dependency.
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rob
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Old February 10th, 2017, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by meek75 View Post
I kind of hope that they will produce some original content that is system neutral. I have high hopes for the player created content that is coming down the pike. Give me a great story that is well organized and I can add the mechanical bits. If I can pick up a solid RW module for under $15 I would certainly do it.
We won't be creating any original content ourselves, but we will absolutely be pulling together awesome system neutral content from a lot of very talented 3PPs that create some amazing stuff. System neutral material was an integral part of the original vision. Way back in the Kickstarter, we got the license to do Masks and Eureka from the brilliant team at Engine Publishing, and those two items will be available at CM launch. We've also go some other stuff in the works that is really good, system neutral, story-focused material.
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rob
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Old February 10th, 2017, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by AEIOU View Post
Putting goods on sale is a good indication that the pricing scheme is not working so let's see how quickly this happens and how often.
Don't get your hopes up on this approach. We do a single sale every year, and it's only for a subset of items we regularly offer. That's not likely to change.

The reason for this is pretty simple. Lots of companies feel they have to put their stuff on sale. It's the core business model behind DTRPG, Steam, GOG, and plenty of other places. But we consider that practice as ultimately de-valuing the product and establishing the expectation within consumers that they should wait for a sale. We've always stuck with the philosophy of pricing our products to provide a high value for the money invested, then just maintaining that price thereafter.

We're doing the same for the RW content with the pricing that we control. I think users will be very happy with the quality and utility of the RW material they purchase relative to the investment. Obviously, that financial investment is meaningful, so the real question is whether the core concept behind RW is viable. That still needs to be proven, but discounting isn't likely to factor into the equation, either way.
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rob
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Old February 10th, 2017, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by daplunk View Post
It sounds like that's not the case and reading between the lines its due specifically to their involvement with Steam. Steam wouldn't allow the type of check that Paizo are asking for. Therefore we can assume the discussion was had and a line in the sand was drawn. I would wager Paizo agreed to step over that line for FG due to the popularity of the tool.

All assumptions, but Steam has a history of being difficult to work with in situations like this.
Steam absolutely complicates things for FG. But I would wager that you'd lose your bet.

All I can really say is that Paizo made it very clear to us that it was paramount in their eyes to have a level playing field for all their digital partners and that the same rules would apply exactly the same to all companies, with no exceptions. That philosophy is consistent with many other things Paizo has done in the past, including with regards to how our Hero Lab license has been structured over the years - even when there were no other companies with active licenses with Paizo. They are very conscientious when it comes to keeping things balanced for everyone. You may also want to look at the post upthread from @Galymyr regarding the d20Pro announcement.

I can't speak to the specifics of the FG license, but I am absolutely inclined to trust Paizo on this detail.
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daplunk
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Old February 10th, 2017, 08:47 PM
It's going to be interrsting to see what occurs. FG devs seem pretty concrete in this check wont be happening with them. It sounds like they are exploring Paizo selling their content for them via the Paizo store to enable people who own the pdfs to purchase from there at a discounted price. It honestly sounds like they are trying to achieve the same result but via different limitations. The only way I seem them doing that with steam though is to include a pdf in the steam purchase.

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Tharmiones
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Old February 12th, 2017, 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
FYI, the PDF component is NOT applicable to the Pathfinder rulebook line. That material is almost entirely OGL, so it's a different animal within the license and doesn't have the attached PDF dependency. Any material that includes a substantial portion of non-OGL content - such as APs, modules, Campaign Setting, and Player Companion - does have the dependency.
That is great to hear. Makes things a lot easier for me. Well let's see what will be available in the beginning and when the next PDF sale from Paizo happens.
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EightBitz
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Old February 12th, 2017, 05:01 PM
Assuming I had the money, anything I would want to buy from the content market (in regards to Pathfinder), I either already have the PDF for, or would want to buy the PDF anyway.
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