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blzbob
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Old April 28th, 2012, 05:46 AM
So I'm running into two issues. The first is that id I have Ultimate Power source active, then Density does not give Protection as a chained power. The second is that if I am using Alternate Form and take Solid (this doesn't seem to matter which sources I have selected), then I get validation errors says that all the non-instantaneous powers need to be the same duration.
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Duggan
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Old April 30th, 2012, 03:27 AM
I think that it's set up as a Toughness increase along with Impervious Toughness. I'm not at the right computer to check this at the moment, but I am making a note to check it when I get home.

The way it reads out in the out, FWIW, is:
Density 6 (+12 STR, +3 Toughness, Weight Multiplier: x5, Adds: Immovable 2, Super-Strength 2; Permanent; Innate)
. . Immovable 2 (Resist Movement: +8, Resist Knockback: -2)
. . Super-Strength 2 (+10 STR carry capacity, heavy load: 29.4 tons; +2 STR to some checks)

which looks like it's applying it as a straight attribute increase rather than adding Protection, if that answers your question.
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blzbob
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Old April 30th, 2012, 08:04 PM
If I have the Ultimate Powers selected, then Protection doesn't show up in the chained powers but Super-Strength and Immovability both do. If I deselect it it shows up as a chained power along with Super-Strength and Immovability as expected. I'm having a hard time adding some characters because the points aren't working out right. I have to take Protection separately if I have Ultimate Powers selected.

I see what you're saying but Toughness seems to adjust regardless.

Last edited by blzbob; April 30th, 2012 at 08:07 PM.
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Duggan
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Old May 1st, 2012, 04:41 AM
Ah. I didn't try switching the game books back and forth. What are you trying to do with Protection that requires it to be defined separately?
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Duggan
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Old May 1st, 2012, 04:44 AM
As for Alternate Form, I forgot to check on that last night, but my suspicion is that it has something to do with the change between Core and Ultimate Power. Core required all powers to be the same duration, which determined the duration of the Alternate Form. Ultimate Power, I think they could be any duration, and Alternate Form started as Sustained (or Permanent).
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blzbob
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Old May 1st, 2012, 07:54 PM
I was trying to add the Archetypes that haven't been entered yet and some ran into issues with power points. I think some of the issues have been resolved. The more I talk with you, the more I figure out how the archetypes were entered. I've been trying to build them and when I don't see the powers lining up it gets confusing.

If I wanted to make the protection from Density ablative or limited to a certain type, I can see it being a problem. Unless I'm missing how to do something, which is entirely possible.
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Duggan
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 04:10 AM
Ah. Yeah, that would be a potential issue. Originally, one could apply all of the modifiers to the Toughness save directly, but somewhere along the way, the ability to add flaws was removed. I will try to remember to take a look at the coding for Density tonight to see if there's a nice way to separate it out.
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blzbob
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 07:41 AM
Thank you very much.
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Woodclaw
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duggan View Post
Ah. Yeah, that would be a potential issue. Originally, one could apply all of the modifiers to the Toughness save directly, but somewhere along the way, the ability to add flaws was removed. I will try to remember to take a look at the coding for Density tonight to see if there's a nice way to separate it out.
I remeber this too. the problem was that if only flaws were applyed the totals were completely wrong.

Personally I found a couple of ways to add Flaws to the Toughness bonus in Density by making some flaw that recalculate their values based on a fraction of their ranks.
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Duggan
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 04:48 AM
{nods} I took a look at the code and indeed it's being coded two different ways. If you are running Ultimate Power and you don't have Force Core added, it adds to your Toughness directly. If you don't have Ultimate Power checked or you have Force Core added, it adds ranks of Protection. Looking at the respective entries in the books, that's entirely in keeping with how Density was changed for Ultimate Power.

The Archetype books are intended to not require anything but Core (although frankly, the developers frequently forget), so your best bet would be to either turn off Ultimate Power for this guy or, if you need a feat or power from it, use the Core Rules +0 Extra.
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