Making Generic Classes work

[GLBIV]

Greetings,

I'm trying to build character classes in HL to emulate the generic class variant system as described in UA.

Working with the existing NPC expert class, and making various changes hit die, bonus feats, etc., I'm almost there, but I'm hitting a big snag when it comes to getting the class skills to register after I select them.

I realize that the cExpSkill bootstrap is likely tied specifically to the expert NPC class, so I'm wondering how I can tweak it to make it work on my generic versions.

Has anyone run into this before?

-Lou

[GLBIV]

Really? Nothing?

[Kendall-DM]

The reason I haven't replied is that I'm not really sure what you are asking. The more detail you provide about the problem, the more likely you will get a response. I don't work with NPC classes in my game (I think they are completely unnecessary) so I'm not familiar with the Expert. I get that you are selecting skills, but you aren't telling me how. I get that you want a variable pool of skills, but I'm not sure what you mean by cExpSkill being related to it. In truth, I don't know that there is a way to assign a bootstrap (such as a skill) through a script. If there was, I would be using it myself to implement shape changing abilities. I haven't been able to do it, and I'm a fairly competent programmer.

[Aaron]

I remember trying to get the expert skills to work for me when I was building stuff for the community files, but I'm pretty sure they are wedded to that class alone. You might try giving each character class a certain number of custom abilities and use those to pick your class skills.

[Nightfox]

it looks like the cExpSkill that is bootstrapped is internal to the system. normally I'd say, make a copy of it and change the references to your new class, then change the bootstraps to your copy, but I can't find the original cExpSkill anywhere. I'll look into it more tomorrow when I have more time.

[GLBIV]

Kendall,

Thanks, I wasn't trying to rude. I'll clarify.

I am working on a campaign that uses only the three generic classes that are described as a variant rule in Unearth Arcana - Warrior, Expert, Spellcaster. I think they are more individualized and realistic than the standard cookie cutter classes - and the metric butt-ton of prestige classes - that exist in the core rules.

One key feature of these generic classes is they select their own class skills - much like the NPC class expert.

What I was trying to do was make a copy of NPC expert in the editor, then change all the class features except the sExpSkill bootstrap. Turns out, the class validates, but when I start creating a character I can select the class skills at on the class tab, but none of them register as class skills on the skills tab. If I could get that to work, my problem would be completely solved, because I've figured out how to rig everything else.

I haven't taken a programming class in more than 10 years, and that was C++, so I haven't a clue if there's a way to trick HL into believing my copied custom class is the same as the NPC expert class as far as the cExpSkill thing is concerned. And since I can't edit the thing its self, I was wondering if one of you code-wizes knew how.

I still make PCs by hand - because I like it - but HL is great for generating NPCs.

I suppose I could simply designate every skill as a class skill for these NPCs and limit the number of skills I select in creation. I was just wondering if there was a code fix.

Thanks for the time guys,

-G

[GLBIV]

Nightfox, That was my initial thought too, but I looked all over for cExpSkill and the only place it shows up is on the actual bootstrap Thing ID list.

I know if I could edit it, it would simply be a matter of replacing cHelpEx (or whatever the id for expert is) with whatever the ids for my classes will be, but I can't find it anywhere.

[Kendall-DM]

Ok, I've taken a quick look at this, and you really can't do anything with cExpSkill. It's part of what HL does internally specifically for the Expert class (so bootstrapping the same to your class won't work). cExpSkill is just a skill chooser. You can emulate this with a Custom Ability, but it will be complicated. You will have to make a Custom Ability with the same Name (but different IDs) to all the Skills. Then you have each of those Custom Abilities bootstrap their own skill (ClassSkill.XXXX I think) they represent. Be sure to delete the Helper.ShowSpec tag from each of these Custom Abilities (otherwise all the skill selections will show up in the Specials list on the hero). Now, give the class a custom count equal to the number of skills they can choose, that choose from those on your Custom list of skills. Does that help?

[Aaron]

I think there is an example of using Custom Specials for this in the community files as well, for the Noble Class, if I remember correctly. They get 1 or 2 class skills they get to choose.

On second consideration, these three classes do they always get the same # of class skills? If so you could make a class special and bootstrap that X number of times at 1st level, have the class special choose among all skills, and pull the ClassSkill tag to the special. Then push that to the linked class to give it the class skill.

For example, if the Arcanist always gets 4 class skills, bootstrap the special 4 times, each of which chooses a skill, pulls the tag, pushes it to the class via the linkage.

[Kendall-DM]

Originally Posted by Aaron

I think there is an example of using Custom Specials for this in the community files as well, for the Noble Class, if I remember correctly. They get 1 or 2 class skills they get to choose.

On second consideration, these three classes do they always get the same # of class skills? If so you could make a class special and bootstrap that X number of times at 1st level, have the class special choose among all skills, and pull the ClassSkill tag to the special. Then push that to the linked class to give it the class skill.

For example, if the Arcanist always gets 4 class skills, bootstrap the special 4 times, each of which chooses a skill, pulls the tag, pushes it to the class via the linkage.

Aaron, can this be done for special abilities as well? This may be a solution to my change shape dilemma, as I should be able to pull all the tags from one creature and push them to the other. But I don't think special abilities work with just tags, but thought I'd ask anyhow.