Small Monks

[chogenkiboy]

Hmmm... looks like my proposed subject/topic Flurry of Blows was ignored since I replied to Small Monks... that and the amulet should be Amulet of Mighty Fists. Hopefully this doesn't obfuscate then main concern with Flurry of Blows.

[Colen]

chogenkiboy wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I read through the topic titled Small Monks, and I think you've done an
> admirable job handling Flurry of Blows, Monk's Belt, and Amulet of Might
> Fists.
>
> I did notice one thing when I included the feat Weapon Finesse in Hero
> Lab 2.0, however. In my case, the character had a better Dexterity bonus
> than Strength bonus. The Unarmed Strike block correctly incorporated the
> better to hit bonus from the character's Dexterity bonus instead of the
> character's Strength bonus, but Flurry of Blows only seemed to apply the
> Strength bonus.
>
> In other words if a character has Weapon Finesse, and the character's
> Dexterity modifier is better than the character's Strength modifier, the
> Flurry of Blows block should incorporate the Dexterity modifier instead
> of the Strength modifier.


Good point! I've fixed this, so it'll be included in the next release.


Thanks!


--
Colen McAlister, colen@wolflair.com
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development

[Kendall-DM]

Originally Posted by Colen

Flurry isn't just for Unarmed Strike, so we can't necessarily apply
all unarmed strike bonuses to it... but at the same time, most people
are going to be using Flurry with unarmed strike. Does anyone have
any good ideas about how to handle this?

I've now come across this and have to apologize for resurrecting this thread. However, I do see a solution, as nobody in their right mind is going to do both unarmed strike and a monk weapon together in their flurry of blows. Well, the circumstances of such would be extremely rare. Players, in general, always attack with their best weapon when they have multiple attacks (and since this is not classified as two weapon attacks, it isn't an issue with an off-hand attack). So, the best way to handle this is to have flurry of blows look to see what is equipped on the character (you can equip unarmed strikes) and go with that. This wouldn't be able to include natural weapons, but they aren't allowed to be used in a monk's flurry ability anyhow.

1. Check if that weapon is a monk weapon, ignore steps 2 through 4.
2. Check if a weapon is equipped, if not ignore steps 3 & 4.
3. Check that more than one weapon is not equipped, and if so, ignore step 4.
4. Adjust flurry attack based on the weapon that is equipped.

I'm implementing this in my flurry of blows, but thought it might be nice to implement this in the files (so weapon focus and other bonuses will apply as necessary).

UPDATE: And I've got this working perfectly now.

[Aaron]

But this runs into the problem of what is "Best", doesn't it? This is necessarily subjective and I am not sure it is a call we should make for the player. If the monk has equipped a two handed monk weapon with a higher damage than her unarmed strike, but has weapon focus in Unarmed strike she may have a higher attack bonus with one and damage bonus with the other. Which is best? That depends on whether you'd prefer to hit more often or harder.

[Kendall-DM]

Originally Posted by Aaron

But this runs into the problem of what is "Best", doesn't it? This is necessarily subjective and I am not sure it is a call we should make for the player. If the monk has equipped a two handed monk weapon with a higher damage than her unarmed strike, but has weapon focus in Unarmed strike she may have a higher attack bonus with one and damage bonus with the other. Which is best? That depends on whether you'd prefer to hit more often or harder.

The way I have it working, you can still choose what is best. My point was, depending on the situation, circumstances, whatever, you will choose one of your weapon's as the best weapon for the job, and usually use it exclusively with your flurry. I was creating Kuo-Toan Monitors when this came up. The monitors I was creating were level 4, so they have a +1/+1 for their flurry (or rather better stated, they have -2/-2 to the attack they are using for flurry). Now, the Monitor has a Strength that gives it a +1 bonus, and its level plus racial HD gives it a +5 BAB, for a total of +6. However, the Monitor has taken weapon focus with its unarmed attack (giving it a better attack bonus). The flurry, with no weapons equipped, displays a base of +4/+4, if I equip the quarterstaff it is still +4/+4 for the flurry, same with the kama, but if I equip the unarmed, it displays +5/+5 due to the weapon focus. You can still choose a better damage weapon if you want, as well as a different type (slashing or piercing), I just wanted the attack bonuses accurately displayed.

I do still forsee a problem with bonuses (it might get both the one on flurry and the one from whatever it is copying the attack bonus from). I'll get that sorted out next, but feel that this is a good solution to the problem. UPDATE: Actually this works fine, since all the changes occur after the attack values are created. It is only carrying the bonuses over for the chosen weapon, which is what is intended. Sometimes timing issues can work IN your favor!

[Kendall-DM]

Here is what I did, maybe that will show what I mean clearer. I just added this code to flurry of blows and left the rest alone.

Final Phase/10005

~ If we're wearing armor or shield, we're disabled.
if (hero.tagis[Hero.EquipArmor] + hero.tagis[Hero.EquipShld] > 0) then
  var result as number
  result = assign[Helper.SpcDisable]
endif

~ Get the bonus based on our level.
var bonus as number
var level as number
level = field[xTotalLev].value
if (level < 5) then
  bonus = -2
elseif (level < 9) then
  bonus = -1
else
  bonus = 0
endif

~ Apply the bonus to our flurry of blows weapon based on equipped
~ monk weapon.
foreach pick in hero from BaseWep where "!thingid.wQtrstaff"
  doneif (each.tagis[Hero.OffHand] <> 0)
nexteach
foreach pick in hero from BaseWep where "wGroup.cHelpMnk"
  if (each.tagis[Hero.MainHand] <> 0) then
    container.child[wFlurry].field[wAttack].value = each.field[wAttack].value + bonus
  endif
nexteach

[Aaron]

Ah, well nicely done then.

[nogoodscallywag]

As of July 8, 2013, Herolab still shows a halfling monk, 20th level, with no feats or anything selected, doing 4d4-1... seems like it should be 2d8 at least

[Sendric]

Originally Posted by nogoodscallywag

As of July 8, 2013, Herolab still shows a halfling monk, 20th level, with no feats or anything selected, doing 4d4-1... seems like it should be 2d8 at least

I am unable to reproduce this. I created a 20th level halfling monk and am seeing 2d8-1 damage. I even removed all .user files to make sure it wasn't something fixed in the community set, but I'm still seeing 2d8. Can you tell me if there's anything else going on with your character?

[CptCoots]

I'm having a similar problem with large monks. More specifically, I was implimenting a version of Powerful Build that upped unarmed damage. So I tossed in a .assign[Helper.DamageUp] somewhere in there. This seemed to work okay. Until you get to Monk level 16. Here Medium damage is 2d8 (Large 3d8 by DMG page 29). However, Hero Lab gives 2d10...

There is further problems here. Take a Medium creature with 16 levels in Monk. Use adjustments to do Spell: Enlarge person, Size Category, or Weapon Size: Unarmed. The first two do NOTHING to the unarmed damage while the third goes from 2d8 to 2d10.