Thread on new vs. old, App vs. Program

[thaX]

Quoting Alientude from another thread...
You're going to have to be more specific than "some aspects." I can't think of anything that would be difficult to implement into HLC; at least, not more difficult than any other system.

OK, first thing, I am not a programmer, so everything I am talking about is from seeing how it works between the two iterations, program classic and the new app. It also is going off of information that Code Monkey folks dipped into when explaining the the evolution to their new (never released) character creation forge that would have been the successor to Etools.

Herolab has been around for awhile, and while it is adaptive and able to do a lot of what is needed to build characters for the user, the program is coming to a point where it is hitting a plato like Etools had done in 3.5. Some of the more complicated rules are being worked around as Lonewolf tries to impliment a better way to effect them.
Some examples are having feats that have multiple entries for branching effects, like the shifter's having Dark Vision instead of other choices, Templates being used within the adjustments tab instead of adding it in like an additional class/monster feature, and some things with the newer classes like the Shifter and Kinestist.

The app seems to have a different approach to this, and likely will be able to implement these rules and options in a better way. I still think the App (HLO) has a ways to go before being up to the point that it is on par with the program, but that is only a matter of time and resources.

Yes, Herolab Classic (Program) is still the better product, for now, but the game has evolved and grown, just as 3.5 had (quickly) outgrown Etools. Herolab Classic can do PF1 really well, but I have a feeling that Starfinder and to an extent, the PF2 system that it pulled from, had some things that it need some help on, and though I think an offline program would have been preferable, the online app seems better able to effect the overall character creation and has room to grow where the old program might have hit a wall.

There are some things that need some attention, to be sure, like the character sheet missing information for organized play, stats using modifiers as the main numbers like M&M, and the SF Stamina and HP boxes being switched from the position it has on the character sheet in the book. There should also be an offline character file to access for those who don't have wifi all the time, like at conventions or when power is out.

That will hopefully be addressed at some point, along with Starship stats. I know that the next iteration of a program will work with newer tech, smoother interfaces and improved integration of materials. I had hoped Herolab 2.0 would have been a program instead of a browser app, much like what Code Monkey had hoped to do with Hero Forge (or whatever they would have called it). Going to an online model backtracked some things in my limited understanding, but also freed up some open design space to get the App some room to grow.

Yes, there are some things Herolab Classic had some trouble with, we saw this well before Herolab Online came out, and it is more pronounced with the some of the last books of PF1

[Farling]

HLO (web) has the main aim of allowing multiple characters to interact together in a seamless environment, whether to do with sharing a spaceship (in SF), buffing a party with spells all with a single action, sharing treasure more easily, or accessing your characters directly from within a VTT.

It is these sharing aspects that seem to be the main goals of HLO.

(I wouldn't call it an "app", since an "app" usually refers to something that you can install on a phone or tablet.)

[thaX]

The reason I call it an App (Short for Application) is that the main program is on a server while the user accesses it from the interface, much like most of the apps on the Apple Iphone or Android device.

The want is for most of the bigger companies to call all computer programs, no matter which device they are used on, to be called Apps now instead of the more apt "Program" they had been in the past. Most of the online purchase portals are called "App Stores" now, including the windows version.

Sucks, but there you go.

[dacoobob]

Originally Posted by Farling

HLO (web) has the main aim of allowing multiple characters to interact together in a seamless environment, whether to do with sharing a spaceship (in SF), buffing a party with spells all with a single action, sharing treasure more easily, or accessing your characters directly from within a VTT.

It is these sharing aspects that seem to be the main goals of HLO.

We've seen this claim made many times, and yet-- two years after HLO was released-- we still don't even have an estimated date for implementation of such features. It's "something we want to do" at some unspecified time in the vague future.

[Farling]

Originally Posted by dacoobob

We've seen this claim made many times, and yet-- two years after HLO was released-- we still don't even have an estimated date for implementation of such features. It's "something we want to do" at some unspecified time in the vague future.

It is what is supposed to come from the Campaign Theatre.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by Farling

It is what is supposed to come from the Campaign Theatre.

Please note that the initial launch of Campaigns will NOT include everything dacoobob is requesting. It lays the foundation for us to begin bringing those things online.

The first stage is a shared environment where the players and GMs can see each other's characters, and have changes they make to characters they control reflected to everyone in game. This is something Hero Lab has not had in past incarnations (classic), and required significant infrastructure to provide. Once this is stable and in good working order, it gives us a solid platform on which to build deeper interactivity, and delivering the things dacoobob is referring to.

We're hoping for a public beta before the end of the year/early January, depending on how our final infrastructure work goes.

[thaX]

that is great and all, though I would hope you could get the basics down as you get HLO going with the Campaign Theatre.

• Full character sheet when printing, PFS info included (Faction Info and School choices made).
• Ability to see character in character sheet mode on the interface
• Pricing scaled back to fit the online model (should not be the same or higher than the HLC)
• Offline use that can bring up characters from files/Ability to save characters for this use.
• A way to print a stat block that is much like the monster stat block is set for the Bestiary. (Especially for the Bestiary entries)
• usage of stock images to use for character picture, and having that pic, stock or imported, to be used on the main character portal.

and many more I am sure others can list. This is just stuff I have looked at in the few minutes I have mess about with the App.

[flyteach]

I still get the feeling that campaign mode is providing something different than simply sharing a character between two HLO users like a .port file from HLC.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by flyteach

I still get the feeling that campaign mode is providing something different than simply sharing a character between two HLO users like a .port file from HLC.

It definitely is, even in the first incarnation. It's a real-time updating view of everyone's characters for all players and GMs that are connected. It's intended for use during games/at the table.