Int modifier and skill points

Ravencloak · March 7th, 2007, 12:28 PM

I know this isn't spelled out clearly in the PHB (at least not to my satisfaction), but it has been addressed in the 3e/3.5e rule FAQs that increases in your character's Int modifier do NOT retroactively increase the character's skill points. The "bonuses" only affect skill points at the current level and forward.

This has the unfortunate side effect of requiring a character generation program to track when Intelligence bonuses are gained, which, in my experience, is really cumbersome.

That said, I've noticed that HL does not handle this correctly. For example, my 3rd-level human fighter with Int 13 has 24 skill points (2+Int+1 bonus)*6. That's all well and good.

When I bump him up to 4th level, he gains an additional 4 skill points bringing the total to 28. But when I apply his 4th-level attribute increase to Intelligence, increasing his mod to +2, he suddenly has 35 skill points. A gain of 7 points, showing that HL is treating the skill point increase as retroactive.

I know it's a pain to implement (and I personally think all PCs could use a few more skill points), but if you're trying to make HL 100% true to the d20 system, it needs fixing.

Here's the relevant section from the rules FAQ (as with many other things in 3e/3.5e, it's buried pretty deep):

If a character levels up after taking Intelligence damage does the number of skill points he receives for the new level depend on his normal Intelligence score or his damaged score? What if he takes ability drain instead of damage? What happens to his existing skill ranks?

As noted on page 38 of the Player’s Handbook, only permanent changes to Intelligence affect the number of skill points you gain when taking a new level. A character with Intelligence damage gains skill points based on his normal (undamaged) Intelligence score, while a character with Intelligence drain gains skill points based on the adjusted score.

Either way, this has no effect on his existing skill ranks. Permanent changes to Intelligence don’t retroactively change your number of skill ranks from previous levels.

DannyBoy2k · March 7th, 2007, 01:38 PM

This is interesting...since I get exactly the 29 skill points I should have. Might I be so bold as to ask which version you have? An earlier version might be to blame here.

Ravencloak · March 7th, 2007, 05:23 PM

I've got the most recent updates, v1.0h.

Just to clarify, the issue isn't with how HL initially calculates skill points. The issue is how HL calculates skill points after a mid-level increase in the PCs Intelligence modifier.

DannyBoy2k · March 7th, 2007, 05:54 PM

Indeed. Fighter, 28 skill-points at level 4, 29 skill-points after I raise Int from 13 to 14.

Colen · March 7th, 2007, 06:27 PM

At 01:28 PM 3/7/2007, you wrote:
>That said, I've noticed that HL does not handle this correctly. For
>example, my 3rd-level human fighter with Int 13 has 24 skill points
>(2+Int+1 bonus)*6. That's all well and good.
>
>When I bump him up to 4th level, he gains an additional 4 skill
>points bringing the total to 28. But when I apply his 4th-level
>attribute increase to Intelligence, increasing his mod to +2, he
>suddenly has 35 skill points. A gain of 7 points, showing that HL is
>treating the skill point increase as retroactive.
>
>I know it's a pain to implement (and I personally think all PCs
>could use a few more skill points), but if you're trying to make HL
>100% true to the d20 system, it needs fixing.

Hi there,

Thanks for the report. This was working in the past (it should indeed
only be giving you the +1 skill point bonus for the new level), so
there must be a bug somewhere that needs to get fixed. Thanks for
letting us know, and we'll do our best to fix it for the next update
(currently scheduled for Friday).

Thanks!

--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development
http://www.wolflair.com/

Ravencloak · March 8th, 2007, 10:51 AM

Excellent! I hadn't tried it with older versions, so I just assumed (sorry) that the issue hadn't been addressed since it didn't appear to be implemented in the most current version.

Colen · March 8th, 2007, 08:54 PM

At 11:51 AM 3/8/2007, you wrote:

>Excellent! I hadn't tried it with older versions, so I just assumed
>(sorry) that the issue hadn't been addressed since it didn't appear
>to be implemented in the most current version.

No worries. I've now fixed it, so it should be working correctly real
soon now.

Thanks!

--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development
http://www.wolflair.com/

DannyBoy2k Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 181 March 7th, 2007, 01:38 PM	This is interesting...since I get exactly the 29 skill points I should have. Might I be so bold as to ask which version you have? An earlier version might be to blame here. ------------- By Lenin's Beard Gel!
#2

Ravencloak Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 18 March 7th, 2007, 05:23 PM	I've got the most recent updates, v1.0h. Just to clarify, the issue isn't with how HL initially calculates skill points. The issue is how HL calculates skill points after a mid-level increase in the PCs Intelligence modifier.
#3