Cantrips in starting spellbook

[charlieluce]

The new Spellbook system appears to assume that a Wizard or Arcanist only starts with the Cantrips that appear in Core, and must pay or take as their free level-up spells any other 0-level spells. Can someone point me to an official Paizo ruling to this effect? I've never encountered anyone whose game made that assumption (though I've never done any Pathfinder Society play).

I've reported this as a bug, because at the very least I'd like a House Rule setting that overrides this.

[Mathias]

Read the rules in the Ultimate Magic web extra pdf that these spells came from. Also, this has been the way HL has handled those spells since Ultimate Magic was released - only core o-level spells are automatically added to spellbooks.

If your GM says otherwise, use the "Buy for free" checkbox when adding them.

[charlieluce]

Originally Posted by Mathias

Read the rules in the Ultimate Magic web extra pdf that these spells came from.

Link? All I can find on the Paizo site is a suggestion that "Core Only" could be used as a House Rule.

If your GM says otherwise, use the "Buy for free" checkbox when adding them.

That still doesn't list them properly under Free Spells. Is this something that I can fix in the editor without a ridiculous amount of trouble? Is it something I can turn off?

[Mathias]

What's wrong with seeing them in the other spell list in the spellbook?

[Mathias]

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo...imate-Cantrips

[charlieluce]

Thank you for the link. I still want a way to implement a House Rule that isn't awkward or clunky-looking. This is going to affect every spellbook using PC and NPC in our games.

[LazarX]

Originally Posted by charlieluce

Thank you for the link. I still want a way to implement a House Rule that isn't awkward or clunky-looking. This is going to affect every spellbook using PC and NPC in our games.

This got thoroughly discussed in PFS play and that's the PFS rule in Additional Resources. Only CRB cantrips are automatically included. (And remember that cantrips in your opposition schools take up TWO slots to prepare.)

It works the other way around as well. If your PC successfully researches a new cantrip, it doesn't magically pop up in every other wizard's book.

[charlieluce]

Okay, I get that the vast majority of non-PFS games are Doing It Wrong (believe me, I spent a lot of time searching through forums on the subject). It's still apparently an extremely common House Rule, and I'd like to see support for it - I outlined an approach in my Spell Costs topic that I think would work for everyone and would not be disruptive to implement.

[Colen]

Adding *all* the level 0 spells to a hero's spellbook isn't something we want to do at the moment, because adding having all those spells on every character would use a lot of extra memory - even if you weren't using them, they're still there in the background, taking up space.

Not only that, with some of the addons we have - for example, 1001 spells - adding *all* the spells would mean you had over 100 spells in your starting spell list, which we think is a few too many.

If it's something you want for your campaign, you have two options:

1) As Mathias suggests, add the level 0 spells you want "for free" to the spellbook
2) In the editor, create an adjustment that bootstraps the level 0 spells you want with the Helper.WizBoot tag (or equivalent other tag) and then add it to the hero.

With either of these options, you can get the spells you want to make legal for your campaign.

[charlieluce]

I'm seriously considering adopting a House Rule that spellbook casters get their casting stat in 0-level spells of their choice (subject to any DM rulings) in their initial spellbook, though I'm afraid that it would be a terror to try and implement in Hero Lab.