Item Hardness and Hit Points

[Silveras]

Long-term, it sounds like it needs to be something like this:

Step 1 would be for LoneWolf to add Hardness and Hit Points as fields on Equipment.

Step 2 would be to expose those fields in the Custom Weapon and Custom Armor forms... strictly manual entry, but they could at least be populated ... and I think it would cover most of the common usage situations.

Step 3 would be the adjustment that ShadowChemosh mentioned above... or at least the first 3 of his 5 items in it. Later enhancements could build out the other values.

Step 4 would be for LoneWolf to add support for the hardness and hit points of special materials (addressing point #5 in ShadowChemosh's list above).

Step 5 would be to expose these new fields in the Editor (probably grouped with Cost and Weight, as they are really common to all item types). Defaulting the values on some types of Magic Items (potions, wands, etc.) would be workable.

Step 6 would be a large, but low-priority and slow, data entry effort to "back-fill" the hardness and hit points of existing items. For anything with a missing hit point value, the field used in #4 of ShadowChemosh's list would provide the Max value for the counter.


I think changing the livename when the item becomes 'Broken' is more important than showing the gradual depletion of hit points. If it could be both without becoming too long, that would be best, of course.

[TheIronGolem]

Adding "Broken" to the livename when appropriate sounds like an excellent idea to me. It provides an immediate explanation to the user as to why their to-hit and damage went down. A HP counter does that too, but only if you happen to remember that weapons are considered broken at 1/2 HP or below, and that comes up infrequently enough that most players probably don't know that by heart.

[Silveras]

Originally Posted by TheIronGolem

Adding "Broken" to the livename when appropriate sounds like an excellent idea to me. It provides an immediate explanation to the user as to why their to-hit and damage went down. A HP counter does that too, but only if you happen to remember that weapons are considered broken at 1/2 HP or below, and that comes up infrequently enough that most players probably don't know that by heart.

Right.. the existing "Equipment Broken" adjustment does that now.

The wrinkle is that there are some things (the example I mentioned above was the Babau Demon's slime) that give the broken condition if ANY damage is done to the weapon ... at least, that's how it reads to me. So leaving it to the user to manually add the "Equipment Broken" adjustment seems like the most effective short-term answer.

Naturally, if the same effect could be achieved with the counter, that would be better.

[Jamz]

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

Really? I "assumed" players would want to know how much the Hardness/HP value was. And setting it on the weapon 'name' is really the only place I could get it visible.

I would think like your characters HP you would really want to see the Max HP and how much "left" in item HP you have left. Is my weapon almost gone or barely hurt.


Icon like view would require making a "new" tab to display this information or LW doing it. Just FYI...

Well, there's not that much you can do about it, so knowing the up to date HP seems unnecessary? As long as you could view it somewhere else and/or it only showed HP if damaged, either way is ok.

I wouldn't turn it down but if it makes it easier not to do, I would be ok with it also? I'm just kind of concerned with the length of the weapon name, they already don't wrap and can scroll off the side in some panels.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Silveras

(the example I mentioned above was the Babau Demon's slime) that give the broken condition if ANY damage is done to the weapon ... at least, that's how it reads to me.

Correct about the any damage wording. The problem is that Babau demon slime damage by the RAW rules can not hurt an average non-magical longsword. Let along a magic longsword.

By RAW acid damage vs objects is half damage and it only does 1d8 damage to start with. Metal starts at hardness 10 which reduces elemental damage like DR. So even if NOT half damage the slime could not hurt the weapon anyways. LOL

I assume most DMs play it that its not half dmg and bypasses hardness. IMHO the most was is full damage and it treats weapons as half hardness leaving Adamatine immune. But its not what it actually says in the statblock.

Sorry couldn't resist as it came up during the RotW AP.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Jamz

Well, there's not that much you can do about it, so knowing the up to date HP seems unnecessary? As long as you could view it somewhere else and/or it only showed HP if damaged, either way is ok.

Fair point.

Originally Posted by Jamz

I wouldn't turn it down but if it makes it easier not to do, I would be ok with it also? I'm just kind of concerned with the length of the weapon name, they already don't wrap and can scroll off the side in some panels.

I totally agree with the Weapon Name length issue. One of the reasons why I started thinking a new tab or something was really needed.

Thanks for the feedback. Always good to hear other thoughts on the matter. Especially before I go and create anything.

[Silveras]

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

Correct about the any damage wording. The problem is that Babau demon slime damage by the RAW rules can not hurt an average non-magical longsword. Let along a magic longsword.

By RAW acid damage vs objects is half damage and it only does 1d8 damage to start with. Metal starts at hardness 10 which reduces elemental damage like DR. So even if NOT half damage the slime could not hurt the weapon anyways. LOL

I assume most DMs play it that its not half dmg and bypasses hardness. IMHO the most was is full damage and it treats weapons as half hardness leaving Adamatine immune. But its not what it actually says in the statblock.

Sorry couldn't resist as it came up during the RotW AP.

Yep.. I asked about exactly that on the Paizo message boards a couple of years ago. I don't recall there being any official answer, though.

[Majuba]

Originally Posted by Silveras

[*]Each +1 of a magic weapon's enhancement bonus adds +2 to hardness and +10 to hit points. There is no similar note regarding armor.

The "similar note" is in the footnotes of the "Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points" Table - The same +2/+10 applies.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Majuba

The "similar note" is in the footnotes of the "Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points" Table - The same +2/+10 applies.

Cool thanks. I knew it applied to armor but couldn't remember "where" in Pathfinder it said.

[Silveras]

Originally Posted by Majuba

The "similar note" is in the footnotes of the "Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points" Table - The same +2/+10 applies.

Unfortunately, that's not necessarily the case.

The note I am referring to is the explicit paragraph in the description of Magic Weapons (p.468 of the Core Rulebook). "Hardness and Hit Points". The text here re-states that each +1 of enhancement adds +2 to Hardness and +10 hit points. It then refers the reader to the table 7-12. However, there is no such paragraph in the description of armor.

Because the rule is that when the text and table don't agree, the text takes precedence, it is at best unclear... and a strict reading would say it does not apply to armor the same way.