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ShadowChemosh
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Old May 1st, 2013, 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamz View Post
Share as of today is Android: 56%, iPad: 40%. That's JUST tablets, not phones.
I just went through this the other day with a person. You can't trust any numbers you see as it all depends on which site the article is on. Even if you tell me its from CNN I can pull two dozen articles that show numbers that range from Apple selling 10% to 99% and the same is true of Android.

So are your numbers even remotely real or you just saying what the last article is you read. And if you read only android articles they all say they are doing the most sales. If you read only Apple articles they all say iOS is outselling Droid.

Hell the last two posts here prove my point. Rob a owner of a software company says Apple leads in tablets and one post later you say no its Android.

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
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- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
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rob
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Old May 1st, 2013, 04:18 PM
Before this thread turns into a debate over sales numbers and which ones are/aren't accurate, please consider the following....

Even if Android tablet numbers are better than iPad numbers (which I honestly don't know), that fact only invalidates one sentence in my entire post above. Everything else in that post remains valid. As is everything in Colen's post from the 11th in this thread.

Once we get to a point where we've got the iPad done and can accurately assess it's adoption rate and impact on our sales, we will then look very closely at Android. At that point, we'll need to get up-to-date sales numbers as well, which could very well be quite different from what they are today. Then we can make a fully informed decision on Android.

I realize there are a lot of Android users out there that would love to see Hero Lab on that platform. Personally, I'd love to be able to do an Android version. But we can't start on it now, so everyone will have to be patient awhile longer.

We're still a tiny company by all normal metrics of company size. And we don't have the bandwidth or resources to do everything we'd like as fast as we'd like. So we're biting things off in increments and building the company steadily. That takes time, and it means everyone who wants stuff from us will have to remain patient while we get stuff done as fast as we can. Is this my preference? Heck no! But it's a reality and we all just have to take a deep breath.

As soon as we have something concrete to share about the Android, you can be absolutely certain that we'll be singing it from the rooftops. Well, OK, featuring it in our monthly newsletter, here on the forums, and through our other social media outlets. You really DON'T want to hear me try to sing.

Thanks for being patient!!
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Jamz
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Old May 1st, 2013, 05:01 PM
Shadow, you are 100% correct. Although in which case you can NEVER say one way or another who has what in market share. To be fare, I just googled it and I think pretty much every article on the first 2 pages had those numbers. Of course, what ever the latest study is is just reprinted across the internet. The ONLY true number would be if HL was out in both formats, which got downloaded the most

And I'm not trying to flame anyone, especially Rob, they were new numbers and I was just sharing. In no way was I trying to say "WTF Rob! Get going now!". If anything, it's more of <insert sad puppy eyes here>.

On one side, it's nice that Wolf Lair IS a small company and the owner still gives personal attention to his customers (thanks rob!), on the other side I wish it was a HUGE company to give us everything in our dreams lol but then it's to big and we don't get it. Sigh. Where's that "sweet spot" in company size? hmmm

Hey, BTW, we didn't talk about the elephant in the room! Windows Surface Pro tablets! Hey Rob when are you going to supp....oh wait, nevermind! Weeee!

-Jamz

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ShadowChemosh
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Old May 1st, 2013, 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
Before this thread turns into a debate over sales numbers and which ones are/aren't accurate, please consider the following....
Sorry I was actually trying to make a different point but that's ok I have learned I don't always write that clearly.

But your right it was most likely going to start a flame war which was NOT my intent. Sorry....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamz View Post
The ONLY true number would be if HL was out in both formats, which got downloaded the most
Actually that was my point which didn't come across well...

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
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Adam.Ormond
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Old May 1st, 2013, 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
Your cost estimate is way off compared to ours. We've already spent many times that amount on the iPad port. Since you already question whether we could raise enough for the low dollar figure you estimated above, it becomes significantly more questionable whether there's a big enough user base to support the actual investment required for an Android port.

Please note that I'm definitely *not* saying we're going to ignore the Android. However, we first need to get the iPad fully finished and then see how the consumer response shapes up for the iPad.

Based on all the data I've seen, the overall Android market is much bigger than iOS, but that includes phones, and the Android *tablet* market pales in contrast to the iPad. That's a critical detail that consumers who don't look closely at the data can easily overlook. Since all we're targeting right now is the tablet, that's market size difference represents a critical factor for the viability of an Android port as well.

Once we have a solid idea of how the full iPad version is actually doing, we'll be able to make an informed decision. But we aren't there yet. When we do get there (best guess is this summer), Kickstarter will most likely factor into the equation as well.

Hope this information helps!
I appreciate the response, and thanks for the insight! I am surprised it would take so long... I know 40k would cover nearly 4 months of my time, plus some overhead for a manager. I figured a port could be done in 4 man-months. I confess, I have not written a mobile app - my estimate was based on doing a web app with asp.net, as I know what that entails. And I have never seen the herolab source, only worked with the editor.

Again, thanks for the insight, and I hope to see a version that runs on first gen iPads and android tablets! I would participate in a kick starter for it.

Last edited by Adam.Ormond; May 1st, 2013 at 05:43 PM.
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rob
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Old May 1st, 2013, 11:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam.Ormond View Post
I figured a port could be done in 4 man-months. I confess, I have not written a mobile app - my estimate was based on doing a web app with asp.net, as I know what that entails. And I have never seen the herolab source, only worked with the editor.
First of all, the Hero Lab engine sits on top of a platform-specific encapsulation layer. That entire API needs to be implemented on top of the Android OS. The Hero Lab interface is driven via data files for each game system. That entire UI framework needs to be implemented on top of the Android UI component library. Once all that is in place, all the core screens (i.e. those not driven by data files) need to be natively implemented for things like portfolio management, character configuration settings, etc. Then it all needs to be tested heavily and refined until it all works great.

That's been a huge undertaking for the iPad, and we're still not complete with it yet. And that includes hiring an iOS guru to help us with the hardest pieces for a multiple months. The bottom line is that it's a substantial process with some very complex pieces.

Hopefully, this gives you a better sense of what's involved in making a port of Hero Lab happen. If it was easy, I can assure you that someone else would have already written an iPad or Android application with the sophistication to compete with Hero Lab. The fact that nobody has done so yet is very telling.
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alexdevus
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 01:00 PM
OP here.

O.o

Thanks for the responses, everyone, especially the senior members and Lone Wolf representatives. I think this thread has received enough attention.

Is there any way we can get this thread stickied for future use, and possibly closed? Lots of good information here for hungry Android users.
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Homncruse
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Old May 6th, 2013, 11:48 AM
Another +1 for Android version. I'm in two gaming groups (where I'm the only overlap), totaling 12 people, and of those 12 people, there are 2 iPads, 6 Android-based tablets, 9 Android-based phones, and 3 iPhones. 5 of us own Hero Lab (and 4 of those 5 owners own Android-based tablets; only 1 iPad). For the purposes of simplifying the argument, we'll ignore a phone-based UI due to screen real estate (side note: if implemented properly using Fragments and following the Android Design Guidelines, the UI work for multiple screen sizes/resolutions comes along for free).

I've read the thread, and there are some good points here. Certainly at the time that development was started, iPads outnumbered Android-based tablets. However, that's certainly not the case now. I agree that supporting iPads for the In-Play Character Sheet functionality was the right call. However, in both of my gaming groups, there is next to zero desire for modifying your character at the table like the desktop version does. With the exception of items, a character sheet doesn't change much permanently between sessions. The only real exception is a level-up, but that's not usually done at the table. Tablets are primarily used for "on-the-go" operations thanks to their portability. Character creation/advancement is done at home where traditional computers (desktop or laptop, Windows or Mac OS) are easily available.

It is my opinion using a combination of my experience and knowledge as both an avid tabletop gamer (on the PC and GM sides), a professional software developer, and mobile technology enthusiast (with personal preferences to Android vs. others) that when the iPad In-Play Character Sheet app has been sufficiently refined and stabilized, the development for an equivalent app for Android begins, postponing development for a fully-fledged Hero Lab on both platforms until their respective In-Play Character Sheet apps are live and stable.

TL;DNR: polish iOS character sheet app, then create Android character sheet app, then do full version of Hero Lab on either platform (order TBD).
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Southern Man
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Old May 9th, 2013, 11:40 AM
Please do a Kickstarter on this. I'd love to have this on my nexus 10. the only people I know that have iPads haven't even bough HL
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cryptoknight
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Old May 9th, 2013, 12:15 PM
I'm with Southern Man... I'd chip into a kickstarter to get an AoS version of HL

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