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jlong05
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Old July 21st, 2014, 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticarGames View Post
Good riddance. Instead of fixing your problem you just leave it for others, how admirable of you.

Meanwhile I'll be using BattleScribe, they seem to have their act together. I'll keep launching Army Builder once in a while just for the "lolz" to see how long it takes for 7th edition to come out, if it ever does, my guess it won't since you guys seem to not care about 40k anymore.

RIP.
lolz...

Interesting choice of words as I am not sure its 'my' problem. 'My' last coding effort was bug free for 6th edition. There is only an issue for 7th edition which I stated I don't own, so technically cannot support anyway.

Good luck with the choice of using the inferior product in Battlescribe. I find lots of people say they 'could' use it, but since it sucks they wait for AB. I am sure the remaining programmers will get the files resolved, assuming community users as yourself dont run them off as well.
'

The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.

Last edited by jlong05; July 21st, 2014 at 06:16 PM.
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bretonias
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:08 PM
Since I happened across this thread, let me say that for every impatient user that seems to have no tact or respect for people's time that they donate for these files, there are many silent users like myself that are very appreciative of the work that is done on these files. While I'd love to have 7th, I also understand that I haven't lifted a finger to try building a data file myself. I choose to be grateful and patient rather than throw a childish temper tantrum on an online forum.

Thank you to those of you who have spent countless hours building these files. I've been in the hobby 17 years and this program along with the developers has been a life saver for building lists and printing them.

For those of you who can't help but complain....Try building a datafile for free on your own time. It might make you more appreciative of all who have and will build them. Otherwise just go back to pen and paper. Then you can complain to yourself when you screw your own list up.
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Absinthe
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bretonias View Post
For those of you who can't help but complain....Try building a datafile for free on your own time. It might make you more appreciative of all who have and will build them. Otherwise just go back to pen and paper. Then you can complain to yourself when you screw your own list up.
I actually built a Codex database for my final project in Database Management, so yea I can tell you that it is definitely no fun nor a walk in the park (especially for someone not making a single dollar for their time) and that was just a single Codex.

I'm actually hoping to complete an app that will integrate that previously built database for my Capstone App Dev class, it's been a major pain in the backside so I've got a less complex back up app ready to go in case I can't get this one knocked out in time.

As a customer, sure, I'd love to have my 7th Edition update but as someone that's actually spent time working on databases and application development and integration, I can totally understand that it takes TIME --- especially when these guys (and gals?) are volunteering their time for the data files.
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Opus
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Old July 24th, 2014, 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlong05 View Post
OK. Let me try to explain some of the issues the DEV team has been encountering.

First. for the last 2 years the team has been largely 3 people(and really only 2). We recently added a new person in the last couple months bringing the effective team to 4 but mainly 3.

The release dates for JUST the Codex rules is this:

Codex: Space Wolves - 10/2009
Codex: Blood Angels - 4/2010
Codex: Dark Eldar - 11/2010
Codex: Grey Knights - 4/2011
Codex: Necrons - 11/2011
Codex: Chaos Space Marines - 10/2012
Codex: Dark Angels - 1/2013
Codex: Chaos Daemons - 3/2013
Codex: Tau Empire - 4/2013
Codex: Eldar - 6/2013
Codex: Eldar, Iyanden - 6/2013
Codex: Tau Empire, Farsight Enclaves - 7/2013
Codex: Chaos Space Marines, Black Legion - 9/2013
Codex: Space Marines - 9/2013
Codex: Space Marines, Sentinals of Terra - 10/2013
Codex: Space Marines, Clan Raukaan - 11/2013
Codex: Inquisition - 11/2013
Codex: Tyranids - 1/2014
Codex: Imperial Guard, Militarum Tempestus - 3/2014
Codex: Imperial Guard, Astra Militarum - 4/2014
Codex: Orks - 6/2014
Codex: Orks, Waaagh! Ghazghkull - 6/2014

This shows that last year there were 11 books released in the 12 months of the year, and so far this year there have already been 5 books released in the first 6 months.

Now, lets breakdown how that work is currently distributed:

Developer #1
Codex: Necrons - 11/2011

Developer #2
Codex: Dark Eldar - 11/2010
Codex: Chaos Daemons - 3/2013
Codex: Tau Empire - 4/2013
Codex: Eldar - 6/2013
Codex: Eldar, Iyanden - 6/2013
Codex: Tau Empire, Farsight Enclaves - 7/2013
Codex: Tyranids - 1/2014
Codex: Orks - 6/2014
Codex: Orks, Waaagh! Ghazghkull - 6/2014

Developer #3 (Also the lead person responsible for releases etc...)
Codex: Space Wolves - 10/2009
Codex: Blood Angels - 4/2010
Codex: Grey Knights - 4/2011
Codex: Chaos Space Marines - 10/2012
Codex: Dark Angels - 1/2013
Codex: Chaos Space Marines, Black Legion - 9/2013
Codex: Space Marines - 9/2013
Codex: Space Marines, Sentinals of Terra - 10/2013
Codex: Space Marines, Clan Raukaan - 11/2013
Codex: Inquisition - 11/2013

Developer #4
Codex: Imperial Guard, Militarum Tempestus - 3/2014
Codex: Imperial Guard, Astra Militarum - 4/2014

Now, this is just the Codex rules they work on. They are also responsible for all the additional updates, rules released, such as Imperial Armour, the various Christmas releases last year, FAQ updates, etc... And they still have normal jobs and normal lives.

Add to this, we have a SINGLE person doing internal testing, and he is AWESOME at it, but its still only 1 guy.


As you can see, the release schedule is not manageable for a team of 3 people to complete. As for other tools which exist, I cannot speak to how they complete their updates or how many people are involved in the effort or even how difficult it is to write for those tools, as I don't use them. I only know that AB is exceptionally complicated due to the nature of these files and the releases of rules by GW. It takes time, and we really have no effective solution for tracking updates as you have indicated. I know for the Tau Empire stuff, I originally created a Bug tracker to indicate the update was needed, but its not like I personally had time to update it with my progress either.

Now all that said, your exodus comment is still valid, and while you see it on the customer side, I am viewing it from the dev side. Which in your opinion is better? Quietly waiting for a release and being happy knowing that one will eventually come, but possibly losing the occasional consumer due to those delays, or verbally asking over and over and getting the developers upset, because they know they are behind and overwhelmed and no one will help, where they eventually say enough and stop doing the files completely? Then there are no file updates at all.
Thank you!!! This kind of reply is exactly what I was looking for. It really helps me at least to understand what is going on in the background and causing delays. It reduces my frustration a hundred fold. I am sure it will help others.

Can you guys take donations, or will that bring the big GW C&D hammer down?
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jlong05
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Old July 24th, 2014, 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Thank you!!! This kind of reply is exactly what I was looking for. It really helps me at least to understand what is going on in the background and causing delays. It reduces my frustration a hundred fold. I am sure it will help others.

Can you guys take donations, or will that bring the big GW C&D hammer down?
I would assume any compensation done in an official standpoint would result in a legal issue.

The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.
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Opus
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Old July 24th, 2014, 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlong05 View Post
I would assume any compensation done in an official standpoint would result in a legal issue.
Well... I was just thinking that since it was optional you might get away with it. I can kind of understand them not wanting you to charge for it, but donations are a different animal. It sucks if that is the case.
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Farling
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Old July 24th, 2014, 03:55 PM
The release of 7th Edition less than two years after 6th Edition also doesn't help with the ability of the team to produce (and then maintain) the data files!
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Lord Lorne Walkier
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Old July 28th, 2014, 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bretonias View Post
Since I happened across this thread, let me say that for every impatient user that seems to have no tact or respect for people's time that they donate for these files, there are many silent users like myself that are very appreciative of the work that is done on these files. While I'd love to have 7th, I also understand that I haven't lifted a finger to try building a data file myself. I choose to be grateful and patient rather than throw a childish temper tantrum on an online forum.

Thank you to those of you who have spent countless hours building these files. I've been in the hobby 17 years and this program along with the developers has been a life saver for building lists and printing them.

For those of you who can't help but complain....Try building a datafile for free on your own time. It might make you more appreciative of all who have and will build them. Otherwise just go back to pen and paper. Then you can complain to yourself when you screw your own list up.
Well said. I am also a some what 'silent user' who 'choose to be grateful and patient rather than throw a childish temper tantrum on an online forum'.

I still use AB to make all my 7th ed, Space Marine lists. The things that i would like to see updated are rather small (Imperial Armour V2, 2nd Ed). To all of you who give your valuable time to help us gamers keep our ducks in a row, I would like to thank you. Please don't let the Trolls grief the rest of us by discouraging you in any way. Your product is great, and I'll wait for the updates with patience.

@JusticarGames .... You are a bad apple.
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Murrdox
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Old July 31st, 2014, 09:58 AM
I'd just like to chip in that I played my first few games of 7th Edition, with Eldar, and now with the new Orks codex out.

I was in the process of making a custom spreadsheet for my Orks since Army Builder for 7th and the Ork codex aren't out yet. It was a little time consuming, so I did a quick search to see what other tools were out there, and I came across Battlescribe.

Battlescribe got the basic job done, but it's no Army Builder. I'm still very supportive of Lone Wolf, and I can't wait for the updates to come out. I'm prepared to be patient.

Keep up the good work guys!
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ChaosLord
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Old August 8th, 2014, 06:10 AM
I tried editing a datafile once and it was a nightmare for me. That being said keep up the good work all of you who donate your time for this. As much as it would be great to see updates sooner I understand how much work it is, so I will just patiently wait and pop in on here once and a while for some hint of current progress. If people want to get into a nerd rage at volunteers for not being fast enough then maybe they should offer assistance to speed up the process. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HELP, DON'T BITCH!
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