Is it possible to...

[zarlor]

Hmm... edgRR makes me think you're getting that from Rippers Reloaded, right? So I take it you copied out an Edge from Rippers, but that edge relies on something else being there that you didn't copy out. You'd definitely run into problems if you don't make sure you get everything else that the thing you want references.

The quickest fix will be to go back into your Edges that you copied over and just delete the scripts in them. That will clear some of the problems, or go find the things that it "depends" on above and make sure you copy those into your data file. The problem you will have with that, however, is that everything has to have a UniqueID. If it's not unique then the program doesn't know which one it's supposed to use so it will throw up its hands in complete frustration and not load ANYTHING. HeroLab throws temper tantrums like that, it's just the way it is. So you'll need to not only give the copied thing a new UniqueID but you'll also need to go back and fix the code in the Edge that needed it and set it to use that new UniqueID.

It may seem tricky but if you really think about it all programs are stupid. They only do exactly what you tell them to and while we humans easily handle abstractions, computers only work in absolutes. So if something in there needed something else, you have to figure out what all of those needs are and pull them all over. It can get a bit complicated if you're wanting to pull over code with the things you are doing instead of just the descriptions.

So while that may be "just" 14 Edges, what Edges were they? And were any of those Edges an Arcane Background? Because if it was you not not only the AB but also the item under the Arcane Background tab that it references, the Drawback, the Skill it uses and so on. There can be a LOT of dependencies with ABs.

[Topdecker]

I copied and pasted the edges from a PDF - I did not use Rippers though I
did frequently copy things in, examine how they made it work, and then delete it. The potential for me copying something, on a temporary basis, from Rippers existed. But I have looked at the XML and it doesn't have anything unexpected in it.

There are several edges from Streets of Bedlam that feed upon lower rank versions (i.e. Street Cred gives you +2 rep with a faction, Street King increases the rep with a Street Cred faction to +4) that have 1:1 relationships. As far as a character sheet goes, Street Cred should not be listed if it has been boosted into a Street King edge. Yeah, you need it for accounting, but not for play. (It would have been better if Street Cred had read 'You may take this edge up to 2 times for a given faction" instead of name morphing.)

Anyhow, this will probably become more complex because the factions are probably static / pick-listable. Or the easiest, example-wise for a newb like me, will be to use a text field.

Is there a reference for the Source IDs of the core book and the companions? (I haven't yet looked.) I was experimenting with excluding.... er, precluding... All of the Arcane Backgrounds and associated skills. I really just need the core rules source ID, but may as well get the companions since they can also see pick and choose use. (I have this working by using the source I have created as the source ID)


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[CapedCrusader]

Well, that first one is complaining about the fact that the eval script #1 is set to Traits/3000 and it also has a before name set up in the Timing window which creates a dependency on that other script that is also set to Traits/3000. With the before name set, it has to happen after that script. Likely, whatever you used to copy from had that timing set, and it's also likely that it's not needed. Go to the Eval Script, and click on the Timing button. Just remove the before name. The purpose of that is to throw an error if the timing somehow changes.
Same thing with the others, but they are actually set later, at 5000.

And you already know about Ctrl-R for re-compiling...

[CapedCrusader]

FYI - To preclude those Arcane Backgrounds, you just need to preclude the Edges.

Not sure which Source ID's you need.

[Topdecker]

Originally Posted by CapedCrusader

FYI - To preclude those Arcane Backgrounds, you just need to preclude the Edges.

Not sure which Source ID's you need.

Thanks, Caped!

I don't know how to get a handle on something, and I have to explain why before I can move too far forward.

Streets of Bedlam requires players to choose an archetype.

Archetypes have skill requirements (usually 3-5 skills that must be taken). Optionally, taking an archetype could auto-buy the needed skills.

Archetypes include gear and change starting funds. They also provide edges and hindrances at no cost or gain.

Archetypes have multiple flavors (and this is the part that is really bugging me). For instance, you can take the BADGE archetype. Then you have to choose to a straight and narrow by the book cop or a dirty cop. Each comes with it's own specialized edges and hindrances.

Anyhow, I find myself creating an ARCHETYPE: BADGE edge that has the requirements of the mandatory skills. It awards the edges/hindrances automatically. It awards gear.

When awarding gear, the gear awarded cannot be deleted. I view this as a problem.

Once I have all of the common elements working, I plan on copying the ARCHETYPE: BADGE edge and then making a Straight & Narrow copy version and a Dirty cop version, each with the edges and hindrances unique to that path. It bugs me to select "ARCHETYPE: BADGE (Straight & Narrow)" or "ARCHETYPE: BADGE (Dirty copy)" since this differs from the original text AND produces more clutter.

Is there a way to make an A/B/C selection as a part of taking an edge? Or am I just overthinking it?



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[zarlor]

Personally I'd use Factions and Groups for that and rename them to Archetypes and Sub-Types, or Flavors, or whatever is appropriate. Several settings do some similar things. I think Weird Wars Rome and East Texas University do some things with Factions and Groups to do various things and some have pre-reqs as well, which would match what you need for the Archetypes. Changing starting funds would be handled just like the Rich Edge (it has the code you'd need, just modify it as appropriate), but bootstrapping gear I'm not so sure about. We couldn't really do it in the past but there have been some recent changes and I'm not positive how that would affect things on that front as I haven't really worked on a file with that since those changes went in. You found the main issue, of course, with gear that is bootstrapped being a permanent fixture. Normally the way around it is to not automate that part, just include it in the description of the thing that would give it to you and maybe put a bold NOTE: on there for the player to get their attention that they will need to add those things.

[CapedCrusader]

Z has the right of it.
Bootstrapping gear has the problem of not being able to remove it.
We ran into this for Interface Zero.
You just have to put in a note for the player.

As far as clutter, don't blame Hero Lab. The Setting is what's producing the problem. Does it matter where the choice happens? Whether there are two entries in the Faction list, or having to make another choice in the Group list once Faction is chosen, or on the character itself once the Faction is chosen? The choice has to be made.
One of the issues is that Savage Worlds is designed to be simple. Its not set up for the level of complication that games like Pathfinder support. Pathfinder gets to be about just one Setting, really, so it can be that complex. That's why Hero Lab doesn't support Skill Specialization. we'd have to go back and re-write the whole thing.
The way that this Setting has all of the preset stuff when the character is built sounds more like the class system in Pathfinder. So, it's going to be a bit interesting to try to jam that into the Savage Worlds module. We're not set up that way.

[Topdecker]

Originally Posted by CapedCrusader

So, it's going to be a bit interesting to try to jam that into the Savage Worlds module. We're not set up that way.

Yeah, I have noticed that almost all of my problems now stem from archetypes.

Here is where I am at. I have groups working and I can bootstrap off of the groups and it works really nicely. However, the list of edges is riddled with free edges that should never be selectable - they should only come with the archetype.

I want to take these archetype-specific edges completely out of the list of edges, but the group bootstraps break if the edges are Hidden or Precluded. Getting them hidden (programatically or otherwise) would clean up the list, allow me to not need to craft the same edge over and over for different versions of the archetype and so on. I can work dirty if I can just keep a given edge from being in the selection list.

Is there a way to do this? To remove an edge from being presented as being purchasable? (I am a bit miffed that HIDDEN doesn't do it <sigh>.) Otherwise, it is going to take a lot of repetition of effort and I may not be able to use the elegant Group/Faction solution.

Thanks

[Topdecker]

zarlor -

Just wanted to thank you. Pointing me off to ETU was perfect - I found most of the answers in the form of functional examples, so thanks for suggesting it! Directing me to factions or groups looks like an ideal solution if I can get some edges hidden

BTW, I'd written this earlier, but somehow failed to post it

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[Topdecker]

Thinking a bit more clearly about it...

Taking the archetype will auto add the archetype-specific edge and it will be set to "ADD ONCE" so it will be self-cleaning.

I think that I can get over my current hurdle by adding prereq code to the archetype-specific edges that will check to make sure that the group membership is correct. Then "Add Once" will take care of the rest.

Finding a way to keep things out of the picklist will probably be unnecessary if I can stumble and bumble my way through a piece of an evaluation script.

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