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Lexin
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Old May 9th, 2017, 08:36 AM
One of my players (the same one) has raised a question about elves and perception in 5e.

What he says is this: A Wisdom of 15 should confer a bonus of +2, and if that were all that there was to it, it would give a proficient passive Perception of 12. Yet the example specifically says 14, and the only way to get 14 is to add in the Proficiency modifier, which at 1st level is +2. So it looks as if the intent is to add the Proficiency modifier where a character is proficient, and the SRD programme sort of forgot about Elves.

I admit to being a bit confused about passive perception, so is he right?

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Dami
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Old May 10th, 2017, 03:19 AM
From the SRD (p78-79) "Here’s how to determine a character’s total for a passive check: 10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check ... For example, if a 1st-level character has a Wisdom of 15 and proficiency in Perception, he or she has a passive Wisdom (Perception) score of 14."

(Bold text my emphasis.) Since Elves automatically have proficiency in Perception, the total of 14 is correct for an Elf. I've just made a 1st level test elf in HL and I get +4 for Perception, so HL is working correctly.
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Lexin
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Old May 10th, 2017, 03:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dami View Post
(Bold text my emphasis.) Since Elves automatically have proficiency in Perception, the total of 14 is correct for an Elf. I've just made a 1st level test elf in HL and I get +4 for Perception, so HL is working correctly.
I think so, too, but my player is querying the attached...it's a 5th level elf with a proficiency in perception.
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Lexin

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Dami
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Old May 10th, 2017, 04:37 AM
The Elf's "Proficiency" bonus is showing as 1d6, so the Passive perception is only adding the bonus of +3 for his wisdom. It looks like that character has "Proficiency Dice" (DMG Optional rule) selected in the config menu (Ability Options) and the 'passive' doesn't add dice rolls. If the character used the standard proficiency progression he'd get +3 for his level and show a Passive Perception of 16.
I don't have the DMG so I can't look up what that section actually says for how that optional rule is meant to work.
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dungeonguru
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Old May 10th, 2017, 05:11 AM
The DMG doesn't have additional rules for calculating the passive skill checks when you are using that variant dice rule.

This might be a bug or something missed by the community writers, since that rule doesn't show up in the SRD - it should be calculated by the program, but I don't think it knows how to add the Perception skill in as an integer, since part of the calculation for Perception now includes a string (1d6). The program is likely trying to add things together and breaks when it hits the d6.

Since Passives do not have a dice roll associated with them, it should show as 10+Wisdom Bonus + static Proficiency Bonus (which is +3 for a 5th level).

From the SRD:
Quote:
A passive check is a special kind of ability check that doesn't involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.

Here's how to determine a character's total for a passive check:

10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check

If the character has advantage on the check, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. The game refers to a passive check total as a score.

Last edited by dungeonguru; May 10th, 2017 at 05:14 AM.
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Lexin
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Old May 10th, 2017, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dungeonguru View Post
The DMG doesn't have additional rules for calculating the passive skill checks when you are using that variant dice rule.
When I turn off the variant rule, which I don't understand and didn't intend to use anyway, the passive perception comes out to 16, which is what it should be.

I am a bit concerned that having someone in the party with a passive perception of 16 gives the party too much of an advantage, but we'll have to live with it.

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Lexin

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dungeonguru
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Old May 10th, 2017, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexin View Post
I am a bit concerned that having someone in the party with a passive perception of 16 gives the party too much of an advantage, but we'll have to live with it.
Just remember to apply the vision and light rules:

Quote:
A given area might be lightly or heavily obscured. In a lightly obscured area, such as dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage, creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.
Which, unless your characters have bright light sources placed everywhere means that the passive Perception score will be 11 for anything beyond 20 feet for torches or 30 feet for hooded lanterns unless you rule that darkvision works in the confines of the bright light/dim light radius.
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Lexin
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Old May 10th, 2017, 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dungeonguru View Post
Just remember to apply the vision and light rules:
Good thought, I will. They will be travelling through an area of dense forest, so that cuts their vision down to what can be seen between the trees.

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