Content Market - Tentative Date?

[Dark Lord Galen]

Originally Posted by meek75

Hmmm, I think that is an overstatement MNBlockhead. I agree that the KS buyers have more cause for frustration. However, I bought RW more than two years ago, and at the time I had the impression, from things posted by LWD in the forums, that calendars, content markets, and journals were all on the horizon. I would never have guessed that more than two years would go by with none of those features released (I don't think LWD would have guessed that either). I am a supporter of RW and LWD. I love the product and will continue to use it unless stability becomes a problem. Still, I think it is fair for us to express some frustration at this point. Even the claim that its coming "soon" has become laughable. The margin by which release has been delayed is massive. Even people who buy the product today are doing so with the understanding that there are features in development. Granted, as time goes by and threads like this one grow, the reasonable expectations for an update dropped precipitously, but I think LWD has to expect and accept this sort of thing given the circumstances.

Originally Posted by meek75

I'm not sure I agree with you on this. RW is my choice for sure. The tools it currently offers fit my style and needs much better than The Keep. However, I could see how a person that values printing and export (as some vocal parties here obviously do) might choose the The Keep. The Keep also offers some built in map tools and is compatible with screenmonkey. If I were a user of Screenmonkey I might choose it. It is a GM tool intended to help organize a game world, so I think it would qualify as a competitor. I believe RW offers more value for the cost and am confident that it will out pace The Keep even more over time, but that is just my opinion.

Spot on and well put Meek.....
The KS was advertised as expanding and supporting the content market, not development of features that were demonstrated in the video or "coming soon regardless of the KS success".

In Reference to competition, Meek also hits the nail!
In my 30 plus years of RPG there have been (and will likely be more of ) numerous attempts to meet the campaign management need. Is the Realmwork approach unique, "uncharted territory"? Not really, their approach is just different. Just as Obsidian Portal approach is also not unique, just different. Both are utilizing software approaches that already exist in other application approaches, such as SQL server programing, Databases, and wiki's. RW & OP take these software approaches and have redirected them into a need for a niche group market (RPGers) which makes it even more difficult to survive in the business world.

They are not the only ones to make this bold attempt, just the latest with the vision to make it better than the previous attempts. Yes, some have fallen to the wayside, others are klunky bandaids at best, but all are in the genre of campaign management just as Realmworks is.

Right now, for better or worse, RW is a klunky bandaid for some, and a fail for others. Hopefully they will survive their company adolescence and it will grow into what all who purchased (or will purchase) hoped it would be, a complete campaign management tool..... for now the wound continues to hemorrhage for all sides.

[spacemarinejunkie]

Here is what I think, I have been a customer on and off of Lone Wolf for a few years. They have always been late with their release dates. Many times they have stated a release date for something and it has missed that date, sometimes by a couple of weeks and sometimes by longer as in the content market. The thing is they have never really changed and the customer simply waits because they are happy with the products they do have and don't want to right off the money they paid to get a Lone Wolf product. That is the way it is with this company and it will most likely continue to be this way.

[kbs666]

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Galen

In Reference to competition, Meek also hits the nail!
In my 30 plus years of RPG there have been (and will likely be more of ) numerous attempts to meet the campaign management need. Is the Realmwork approach unique, "uncharted territory"? Not really, their approach is just different. Just as Obsidian Portal approach is also not unique, just different. Both are utilizing software approaches that already exist in other application approaches, such as SQL server programing, Databases, and wiki's. RW & OP take these software approaches and have redirected them into a need for a niche group market (RPGers) which makes it even more difficult to survive in the business world.

So we're measuring finger length now? Well in my nearly 40 years in the RPG hobby and 30 plus years in the software field, almost all of it in the DB, finance and document handling field, RW is unique. The closest products are specialized case management products used by federal prosecutors. If RW was simply a front end on a DB I would be one of the loudest complaints about the pace of development, I've whipped out packages like that and know exactly what they look like and what they can do. Just because RW stores your data in a DB do not reduce it to "simply a DB." In reality a Wiki uses a DB of some sort to store and retrieve the data it collects but no one calls a Wiki just a DB. Every program that stores more than a trivial amount of data probably does so in a DB.

[Viking2054]

Personally, I think the late change to HTML is a part of the problem... how significant of a problem is unknown though. But the late changes and then the time spent tracking down and fixing the issues by changing to HTML pushed everything back. I know it was a necessary evil for the web-view, but I believe it contributed to further delays.

I personally don't care about web-view... Content Market and fully custom Calendars are the two major things I'm waiting for.

[Farling]

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Galen

Right now, for better or worse, RW is a klunky bandaid for some, and a fail for others.

... and a very useful campaign management tool for others!

[meek75]

Originally Posted by Viking2054

Personally, I think the late change to HTML is a part of the problem... how significant of a problem is unknown though. But the late changes and then the time spent tracking down and fixing the issues by changing to HTML pushed everything back. I know it was a necessary evil for the web-view, but I believe it contributed to further delays.

I personally don't care about web-view... Content Market and fully custom Calendars are the two major things I'm waiting for.

Totally agree. It also created a situation in which the "major release" was much more major for LWD than for users. I think a lot of users feel like there has not been a major update to the product in a VERY long time, while LWD is probably still dealing with some of the aftermath.

[spacemarinejunkie]

Lets try this again since what I said is the paramount reason why we wait for these products. This is something Lone Wolf will never change either...

Originally Posted by spacemarinejunkie

Here is what I think, I have been a customer on and off of Lone Wolf for a few years. They have always been late with their release dates. Many times they have stated a release date for something and it has missed that date, sometimes by a couple of weeks and sometimes by longer as in the content market. The thing is they have never really changed and the customer simply waits because they are happy with the products they do have and don't want to right off the money they paid to get a Lone Wolf product. That is the way it is with this company and it will most likely continue to be this way.

It has nothing to do with programming. It has everything to do with the fact that Lone Wolf knows their customers are so loyal that they can take as long they want to get things done. The content market does have me baffled though since they can actually generate revenue off of that. Additions and enhancements to current already purchased product have always been a subject to these loyalty delays.

[MNBlockHead]

Originally Posted by spacemarinejunkie

Lets try this again since what I said is the paramount reason why we wait for these products. This is something Lone Wolf will never change either...

It has nothing to do with programming. It has everything to do with the fact that Lone Wolf knows their customers are so loyal that they can take as long they want to get things done. The content market does have me baffled though since they can actually generate revenue off of that. Additions and enhancements to current already purchased product have always been a subject to these loyalty delays.

What, you think they are purposefully dragging their feet? I guess that is why you are baffled that they don't have the CM out yet. They don't have it out yet because DESPITE the talented group of very dedicated programmers working on it, it is a very difficult coding challenge and they have very limited resources.

The CM is why no other major features have been released yet, because they have everything dedicated to this (with some distraction from the rush to get the SRD into HeroLabs, I suspect, though I don't know if any of the same coders work on both). The reason for this is not only because many Kickstarter backers were promised the content that will be made available via the Content Market, but because that is how they will make money with RW, which will fund continued development.

I've been as frustrated as others about the features I most want taking so long to be developed and released, but never have I felt this was because LWD is sitting back and abusing its users' loyalty. That is beyond cynical. It is non-nonsensical and all evidence points to the opposite. LWD has been very engaged and open with its users compared to most software companies I've been a customer of. What do you expect them to do? Incur so much expense bringing on enough additional resources to ensure the fastest release cycle possible and run themselves out of business to keep you happy?

They'll lose some customers because of the inability to more quickly release certain features. They will not be able to attract a large number of customers because of the lack of some features. That is a cost that they have to accept to get the CM released in a sustainable manner.

[MNBlockHead]

Originally Posted by Viking2054

I personally don't care about web-view... Content Market and fully custom Calendars are the two major things I'm waiting for.

I believe the conversion to HTML was required for the CM—that it had to be done before the CM could be released. I don't recall the technical reasons for this, but Rob had posted an explanation for why it was necessary back when a number of us were dealing with some conversion issues.

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by MNBlockHead

What, you think they are purposefully dragging their feet? I guess that is why you are baffled that they don't have the CM out yet. They don't have it out yet because DESPITE the talented group of very dedicated programmers working on it, it is a very difficult coding challenge and they have very limited resources.

The CM is why no other major features have been released yet, because they have everything dedicated to this (with some distraction from the rush to get the SRD into HeroLabs, I suspect, though I don't know if any of the same coders work on both). The reason for this is not only because many Kickstarter backers were promised the content that will be made available via the Content Market, but because that is how they will make money with RW, which will fund continued development.

I've been as frustrated as others about the features I most want taking so long to be developed and released, but never have I felt this was because LWD is sitting back and abusing its users' loyalty. That is beyond cynical. It is non-nonsensical and all evidence points to the opposite. LWD has been very engaged and open with its users compared to most software companies I've been a customer of. What do you expect them to do? Incur so much expense bringing on enough additional resources to ensure the fastest release cycle possible and run themselves out of business to keep you happy?

They'll lose some customers because of the inability to more quickly release certain features. They will not be able to attract a large number of customers because of the lack of some features. That is a cost that they have to accept to get the CM released in a sustainable manner.

Just clarifying that the Hero Lab and Realm Works teams are separate, the 5e stuff in HL didn't draw any resources away from Realm Work development.