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Bluephoenix
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Old April 7th, 2014, 01:11 PM
A possible solution is to explicitly type realms as "single GM" or "Shared Realm"

that way single GM realms still have all the offline flexibility of current, but shared realms can use a sharepoint-esque checkout system where the realm is locked to edits by anyone except the person who has checked out the realm.
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Mystic Lemur
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Old April 8th, 2014, 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifer4700 View Post
That's the way it works.

Is it elegant? Nope.
Is it the best solution? Nope.

But it's effective and relatively easy to implement.
So you would remove from everyone the ability to work offline (a purposeful design decision implemented by LWD to benefit gamers who don't always have internet access) so that a small subset of users could co-author realms? That doesn't seem "simple" at all.

I agree with zarlor that the upcoming realm sharing ability will probably solve your issue.
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lifer4700
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Old April 8th, 2014, 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic Lemur View Post
So you would remove from everyone the ability to work offline (a purposeful design decision implemented by LWD to benefit gamers who don't always have internet access) so that a small subset of users could co-author realms?
Absolutely not!

There is nothing preventing someone from working offline in that description. In fact, it fully supports working offline, exactly as it is now, except for the fact that once you first create the realm, you would also do a "checkout".

Then work offline all you want.


The only way you would be preventing people from working offline is if you want to have multiple GMs working simultaneously. That's when you would need to be constantly connected. Unless you allow checking out of certain parts for offline work, allowing one person to work on the World Almanac, for instance, while another worked on Mechanics, and a third worked on Story boards and Encounters. But that's not horribly elegant either.

Last edited by lifer4700; April 8th, 2014 at 07:53 PM.
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Mystic Lemur
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Old April 9th, 2014, 04:53 AM
Sorry, still having trouble reconciling this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifer4700 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxSupernova View Post
Which can be solved by making it impossible to check out a Realm for editing if you're offline, which causes problems of its own...
That's the way it works.
With this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifer4700 View Post
There is nothing preventing someone from working offline in that description. In fact, it fully supports working offline, exactly as it is now, except for the fact that once you first create the realm, you would also do a "checkout".
Especially considering you mentioned being able to update changes to your realm (the same as "Syncing" unless I'm misunderstanding you) without allowing the realm to be accessed for edit by another device. So I guess if you sync but forget to release write protection, you just don't get to work on the realm again until you get back home.

I must be missing something basic here, because this all seems needlessly complicated for such a small benefit.
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lifer4700
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Old April 9th, 2014, 06:19 AM
Ok, I'll back up a bit and try explaining it differntly.

Right now, there is only 1 GM per Realm.
Initial creation of a Realm and Syncing are the only things which require The Cloud.

The GM can always edit their local copy of the Realm, Syncing when/if they wish.



With something like Realm checkout, the only change a single GM would notice is the addition of a "checkout" box.

The single GM would create a new Realm and it would automatically be checked out to them.
The GM can still always edit their local copy of the Realm, Syncing when/if they wish.
They just simply never check it in. Nothing changes.




However, this setup allows multiple GMs to share editing responsibilities, giving the others a break.
Note: This is not simultaneous edits by concurrent users.

GM1 would create a new Realm, which is automatically checked out to them.
GM1 makes any offline changes they wish.
GM1 Syncs, and checks it back in - retaining their (now read-only) local copy for reference.

GM2 checks out the Realm, recieving an editable local copy of GM1's work.
GM2 makes their changes offline.
GM2 has made good progress but isn't complete with their work yet.
GM2 Syncs with The Cloud, but retains the checkout.

GM1 can Sync with The Cloud, recieving GM2's updates.
GM1's local copy is still read-only, but now contains the updates that GM2 made.

GM2 contines to work offline.

Eventually, GM2 would Sync and Check In, and GM1 could then Check it back out again. Or a 3rd GM...



Without sharing logins, and without requiring constant connection to The Cloud, this is the only way to safely have multiple GMs per Realm. By only allowing one to edit at a time.


It's basic document management checkin/checkout functionality, but treating the entire Realm as a document.

Last edited by lifer4700; April 9th, 2014 at 06:22 AM.
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MaxSupernova
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Old April 9th, 2014, 06:23 AM
I think we're arguing about something that is still theoretical, and the actual technical implementation isn't up to us anyway...
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lifer4700
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Old April 9th, 2014, 06:30 AM
Sorry, I didn't know we were arguing - I was just trying to explain a suggestion I made.

...and yes, it is all theoretical at this point.


Ultimately, I would like to see the ability for Realm Works to allow "hot" or "live" updates to The Cloud in order to support the way I play, but I know I'm a very small minority, so I don't expect that to happen any time soon, or at all. And even then, I would only want it to be an option. Even I wouldn't want to be required to have a constant connection The Cloud in order to run the software.
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MaxSupernova
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Old April 9th, 2014, 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifer4700 View Post
Sorry, I didn't know we were arguing - I was just trying to explain a suggestion I made.
You're correct. "Discussing" would be a better word.
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Zaphod Beebledoc
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Old April 9th, 2014, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifer4700 View Post
However, this setup allows multiple GMs to share editing responsibilities, giving the others a break.
Note: This is not simultaneous edits by concurrent users.

GM1 would create a new Realm, which is automatically checked out to them.
GM1 makes any offline changes they wish.
GM1 Syncs, and checks it back in - retaining their (now read-only) local copy for reference.

GM2 checks out the Realm, receiving an editable local copy of GM1's work.
GM2 makes their changes offline.
GM2 has made good progress but isn't complete with their work yet.
GM2 Syncs with The Cloud, but retains the checkout.

GM1 can Sync with The Cloud, receiving GM2's updates.
GM1's local copy is still read-only, but now contains the updates that GM2 made.

GM2 continues to work offline.

Eventually, GM2 would Sync and Check In, and GM1 could then Check it back out again. Or a 3rd GM...
Seems to me this is tied to player syncing as well.

To amend the above example...

GM1 would create a new Realm, becoming the Editor which is automatically checked out to them.
GM1 makes any offline changes they wish, including creating Players and GM/Players. (GM/P1 and GM/P2 included as a GM/Players and P3, P4 and P5 as Players .)
GM/P1 Syncs, and checks it back in, - retaining their (now read-only) local copy for reference and becoming a Player and Viewer.

GM/P2 checks out the Realm, becoming the GM and Editor receiving an editable local copy of GM1's work.
GM/P2 makes their changes offline.
GM/P2 has made good progress but isn't complete with their work yet.
GM/P2 Syncs with The Cloud, but retains the checkout.

GM/P1 can Sync with The Cloud, receiving GM/P2's updates.
GM/P1's local copy is still read-only, but now contains the updates that GM/P2 made.

GM/P2 continues to work offline.

Eventually, GM/P2 would Sync and Check In, becoming a Player and Viewer, and GM/P1 could then Check it back out again, becoming the GM and Editor. Or a 3rd GM/P...

Sleet was enjoying a tasty beverage at his local tavern, when a Tarrasque showed up in the local area. He managed to valiantly get on it's back and ride it. How he did it is a mystery to this day...

RW: Engine Heart, I Love The Corps! Home Brew: Star Gate: Avalon, Monda Minutia. I'm good with: OpenOffice, Paint, Lego Digital Designer. & not so good with: Realm Works, Hero Lab, CC3+, GIMP, Cityographer, Hexographer, Fractal Mapper, AstroSynth, Inspiration Pad Pro. RW Kickstarter Supporter.
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lifer4700
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Old April 9th, 2014, 03:23 PM
Exactly that, ZB.

If you are not the current "Editor GM" your access is exactly the same as a player's would be normally.
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