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jimmy_jinx at yahoo.com
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Old February 24th, 2003, 11:06 AM
I'm sorry for this e-mail, I know most emails of this kind look like
a whiny pirate complaining about his copying habit being made hard,
but the fact is that I am glad Card Vault is a single purchase, not a
subscription, because if it had been I would have cancelled it today.

The single most annoying aspect about this product, is it's licensing
scheme, because it *depends*, for constant use of the program, on the
stability of the operating system (we're talking about Windows here).
I bought my copy on the 18th of December, and I had to format my PC
(hard drive change) late January. Of course, I simply cannot use CV
for 1 more month. But of course, in a way it's good, because
apparently my installation went wrong somewhere and I *might* have to
reinstall everything again. That's enough of a pain, but if I had
purchased CV in, say, October instead of December, and thus had
reassigned my license when I formatted the PC, I would have to
guarantee my PC would keep the same installation for *six* months, or
bye bye CV again.

I'm a gamer, a tinkerer, and a bored IT worker. This is NOT a
combination that tends to produce stable home machines
This means I much choose between my regular computer use or the use
of Card Vault.

Hmm, I really loved your product for the whole month I could use it.
I really did. Too bad I won't be able to use it anymore. Sporadic use
is not worth the sheer work of putting my collection in it.

Nevertheless, congratulations on a technically great product, I hope
you somehow reach the conclusion that all the other companies with
sane licensing schemes are also making money.

Sincerely

Abilio Carvalho

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edward at bolme.com
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Old February 24th, 2003, 11:57 AM
I'll let Rob handle this one, but in the mean time, I'd like to point out
that

(a) Rob is also a techie, and thus can identify with your problem,

(b) we're happy to work with people when they have nonstandard needs, and

(c) part of your Card Vault license includes the ability to have copies on
two machines. Therefore you could keep a backup copy of your inventory,
etc., on a second, stable machine.
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jimmy_jinx at yahoo.com
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Old February 24th, 2003, 01:13 PM
thanks for the reply

hehehe, you know you *could* satisfy both b and c by making a Linux
version. No? Ah, well. such is life, full of such little
disappointments

Do I have to wait until my license is reassigned before I request the
secondary license? If not, would it be possible to install the
secondary version now, and install the primary on the second machine
later?

Abilio


--- Edward Bolme <edward@bolme.com> wrote:
> I'll let Rob handle this one, but in the mean time, I'd like to
> point out
> that
>
> (a) Rob is also a techie, and thus can identify with your problem,
>
> (b) we're happy to work with people when they have nonstandard
> needs, and
>
> (c) part of your Card Vault license includes the ability to have
> copies on
> two machines. Therefore you could keep a backup copy of your
> inventory,
> etc., on a second, stable machine.
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> cardvault-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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edward at bolme.com
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Old February 24th, 2003, 02:36 PM
> Do I have to wait until my license is reassigned before I request the
> secondary license? If not, would it be possible to install the
> secondary version now, and install the primary on the second machine
> later?

S/b fine. See http://www.lonewolfdevel.com/ for further info. This is Rob's
dept., and I'm only answering because I know he's slammed with programming.
Me, I'm just writing documentation with a migraine.
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jimmy_jinx at yahoo.com
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Old February 24th, 2003, 02:49 PM
yep, it worked. hey, maybe you could update the license faq to
indicate this possible use for the sec license. As for me, thanks
again for the help, and sorry if my whining made the migraine worse.
I do tend to rant a bit

Cheers

Abilio

--- Edward Bolme <edward@bolme.com> wrote:
> > Do I have to wait until my license is reassigned before I request
> the
> > secondary license? If not, would it be possible to install the
> > secondary version now, and install the primary on the second
> machine
> > later?
>
> S/b fine. See http://www.lonewolfdevel.com/ for further info. This
> is Rob's
> dept., and I'm only answering because I know he's slammed with
> programming.
> Me, I'm just writing documentation with a migraine.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> cardvault-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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rob
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 8,003

Old February 25th, 2003, 04:55 AM
The licensing scheme was borne of the fact that our previous product, Army
Builder, is experiencing roughly a 3:1 ratio of pirated copies to purchased
copies. That's pretty ridiculous if you ask me. It also makes it quite
difficult to grow a company, especially in a niche market. So we had to
take more drastic steps with CV.

That being said, the licensing mechanism is NOT intended to thwart honest
users. It's a checkpoint to curb piracy. You're not the only user that has
run into this, and we've been very happy to get folks up and running again
when the unexpected drive crash, virus infection, or whatever else rears
its ugly head. All users need to do is contact us and we can usually get
them running again in short order.

By imposing the limits, it makes it difficult for the unscrupulous consumer
to buy one copy and then give it to all of their gaming buddies to install.
That's the intended purpose. The limits allow us to monitor things and keep
it from getting out of control. And the official rules give us a fallback
position if someone really abuses our willingness to help out.

It's a no-win situation, where either the honest users are penalized or
piracy is made easy. Our goal with this solution is a minimum of
inconvenience to the honest users and a reasonably good solution against
piracy. As a tinkerer, you represent a tiny percentage of the target market
for Card Vault, and unfortunately, you're going to be the most impacted by
the mechanism. But there are some steps you can take to minimize problems
in the future, and we'll outline them for you if you contact technical
support for assistance. Please give us a chance to work with you as a
customer before declaring the mechanism a failure.

Please send an email to support@wolflair.com with your license number and
an explanation about what's occurred. We should be able to get your license
operational again pretty quickly. And it sounds like the secondary license
suggestion from Ed has you running again already.

Hope this helps,
Rob


At 12:06 PM 2/24/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>The single most annoying aspect about this product, is it's licensing
>scheme, because it *depends*, for constant use of the program, on the
>stability of the operating system (we're talking about Windows here).
>I bought my copy on the 18th of December, and I had to format my PC
>(hard drive change) late January. Of course, I simply cannot use CV
>for 1 more month. But of course, in a way it's good, because
>apparently my installation went wrong somewhere and I *might* have to
>reinstall everything again. That's enough of a pain, but if I had
>purchased CV in, say, October instead of December, and thus had
>reassigned my license when I formatted the PC, I would have to
>guarantee my PC would keep the same installation for *six* months, or
>bye bye CV again.
>
>I'm a gamer, a tinkerer, and a bored IT worker. This is NOT a
>combination that tends to produce stable home machines
>This means I much choose between my regular computer use or the use
>of Card Vault.
>
>Hmm, I really loved your product for the whole month I could use it.
>I really did. Too bad I won't be able to use it anymore. Sporadic use
>is not worth the sheer work of putting my collection in it.
>
>Nevertheless, congratulations on a technically great product, I hope
>you somehow reach the conclusion that all the other companies with
>sane licensing schemes are also making money.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
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jimmy_jinx at yahoo.com
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Old February 25th, 2003, 04:20 PM
--- Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com> wrote (and I replied):
> The licensing scheme was borne of the fact that our previous
> product, Army
> Builder, is experiencing roughly a 3:1 ratio of pirated copies to
> purchased
> copies. That's pretty ridiculous if you ask me. It also makes it
> quite
> difficult to grow a company, especially in a niche market. So we
> had to
> take more drastic steps with CV.

Yeah, 3:1 is pretty bad. I mean, usually you allow for some piracy
and call it overhead, but I guess in an industry used to thinking
that it's fine if only the GM of a 6-man group buys the rpgs, I guess
the numbers get a bit harsh.

> That being said, the licensing mechanism is NOT intended to thwart
> honest
> users. It's a checkpoint to curb piracy. You're not the only user
> that has
> run into this, and we've been very happy to get folks up and
> running again
> when the unexpected drive crash, virus infection, or whatever else
> rears
> its ugly head. All users need to do is contact us and we can
> usually get
> them running again in short order.

OK, this is what I failed to figure out, leading to my (demonstrably
inaccurate) whiny rant I fully understand what you're saying, it's
just that I'm not quite used to IT companies and custservs being,
like, you know, *flexible*

> It's a no-win situation, where either the honest users are
> penalized or
> piracy is made easy. Our goal with this solution is a minimum of
> inconvenience to the honest users and a reasonably good solution
> against
> piracy. As a tinkerer, you represent a tiny percentage of the
> target market
> for Card Vault, and unfortunately, you're going to be the most
> impacted by
> the mechanism. But there are some steps you can take to minimize
> problems
> in the future, and we'll outline them for you if you contact
> technical
> support for assistance. Please give us a chance to work with you as
> a
> customer before declaring the mechanism a failure.

Oh, I will. And I do understand that the general case has to be
pretty hardline, it's easier to widen previous restrictions than
closing up previous holes
I also understand that people in my situation should expect a certain
level of problems.

> Please send an email to support@wolflair.com with your license
> number and
> an explanation about what's occurred. We should be able to get your
> license
> operational again pretty quickly. And it sounds like the secondary
> license
> suggestion from Ed has you running again already.

Yeah, I'm fine until I find out where the damn security hole in my
machine is and plug it. If I have to reinstall everything *again*
I'll let you know.

I'll really consider sending you a case of beer each if you start
working on a Linux version, though. Can you in good conscience turn
down free beer?

> Hope this helps,
> Rob
>

It did. Thanks
Abilio

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rob
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Posts: 8,003

Old February 25th, 2003, 04:52 PM
At 05:20 PM 2/25/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>Yeah, 3:1 is pretty bad. I mean, usually you allow for some piracy
>and call it overhead, but I guess in an industry used to thinking
>that it's fine if only the GM of a 6-man group buys the rpgs, I guess
>the numbers get a bit harsh.

Another factor is that miniatures (our first product's market) and CCGs are
like crack to most gamers. When given the choice of spending $30 on
software buying another 9 packs of cards (or another 6 figures), most
gamers will gladly pirate the software and spend the money on the
cards/figs. So it's definitely a harsh environment. :-(

>OK, this is what I failed to figure out, leading to my (demonstrably
>inaccurate) whiny rant I fully understand what you're saying, it's
>just that I'm not quite used to IT companies and custservs being,
>like, you know, *flexible*

In my humble opinion, when you're a tiny company, customer service and
word-of-mouth advertising are the lynchpin to success. We've done our best
to take care of customers, and we typically get very high marks from folks.
Consequently, we've got a lot of very loyal customers. Hopefully, you'll
have the same overall experience.

>Yeah, I'm fine until I find out where the damn security hole in my
>machine is and plug it. If I have to reinstall everything *again*
>I'll let you know.

Please let us know BEFORE then. The tips I mentioned previously that help
to avoid problems have to be managed when you are configuring your system.
Basically, it amounts to configuring your system consistently in a few key
areas. If you do that, CV will still think its running on the exact same
computer (as it should).

>I'll really consider sending you a case of beer each if you start
>working on a Linux version, though. Can you in good conscience turn
>down free beer?

The Linux situation is comparable to the Mac situation. I outlined the
issues in a post about this last night, so you can take a look there if you
want the explanation. :-)

Now it's back to wrapping up V1.1....

Thanks, Rob

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
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stend+yahoo at sten.org
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Old March 3rd, 2003, 12:12 PM
Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com> writes:

>>I'll really consider sending you a case of beer each if you start working on
>>a Linux version, though. Can you in good conscience turn down free beer?

> The Linux situation is comparable to the Mac situation. I outlined the
> issues in a post about this last night, so you can take a look there if you
> want the explanation. :-)

I'll add a couple of comments here as well. Either CardVault doesn't like
Wine, or Wine doesn't like CardVault, because the combo doesn't work.
However, CardVault runs wonderfully under Win4Lin, which is another product
that I can't recommend strongly enough, although Win4Lin, unlike Wine,
requires that you have a Windows license.

Sten

--
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- Proposed motto for the Federal government
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stend at spamcop.net
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Old March 3rd, 2003, 12:12 PM
Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com> writes:

>>I'll really consider sending you a case of beer each if you start working on
>>a Linux version, though. Can you in good conscience turn down free beer?

> The Linux situation is comparable to the Mac situation. I outlined the
> issues in a post about this last night, so you can take a look there if you
> want the explanation. :-)

I'll add a couple of comments here as well. Either CardVault doesn't like
Wine, or Wine doesn't like CardVault, because the combo doesn't work.
However, CardVault runs wonderfully under Win4Lin, which is another product
that I can't recommend strongly enough, although Win4Lin, unlike Wine,
requires that you have a Windows license.

Sten

--
De Gubernaculo Venimus et Adservirevos Volumus
- Proposed motto for the Federal government
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