Ninjas get the new hornbow? Why?

outshyn · February 14th, 2018, 04:38 PM

Hornbow from Adventurers Armory 2 (I think). Exotic weapon. Create ninja, add hornbow, watch as it gives it to you with no non-proficiency penalty. No exotic weapon feat needed. Is there something in the rules for this? I know its description mentions it can have the same things a shortbow can, but that doesn't mean people who have training in a shortbow have training in the hornbow! It just means for example that a hornbow can be made of dark wood, like a shortbow can, other effects like flaming would be fine to apply, and feats like Rapid Shot work with it too.

Ninjas (and presumably bards) should not suddenly be proficient with a super bow that is an exotic weapon, without any exotic weapon feat.

ErinRigh · February 15th, 2018, 07:48 AM

Can you post the exotic weapon text in entirety? I don't have access to that book

EightBitz · February 19th, 2018, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErinRigh

Can you post the exotic weapon text in entirety? I don't have access to that book

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/we...s/hornbow-orc/

ShadowChemosh · February 19th, 2018, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EightBitz

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/we...s/hornbow-orc/

Answer is right in the description.

"Any effect that applies to both longbows and shortbows also applies to hornbows."

ErinRigh · February 19th, 2018, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

Answer is right in the description.

"Any effect that applies to both longbows and shortbows also applies to hornbows."

I think what the creators are saying is, the weapon is "technically" exotic, but isn't really different enough from other bows as to warrant its own proficiency, unless the class is not proficient with bows, in which case it counts as an exotic weapon for purposes of feats.

outshyn · 05:45 AM

"effect" != "weapon proficiency"

EDIT: the author of the weapon explains her wording here -- the short version is that she worded it that way so that we would know that things like special alchemical arrows that work with longbows & shortbows also work with the hornbow. Note in her reply she twice mentions that it's an exotic weapon, so I think it's safe to assume that she intended that exotic designation to matter.

ShadowChemosh · February 20th, 2018, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outshyn

"effect" != "weapon proficiency"

Don't agree at all with this statement. When a bow references that it works like other types of bows in Pathfinder it has always meant proficiency. What other "effect" could they be talking about?

Quote:

Originally Posted by outshyn

EDIT: the author of the weapon explains her wording here -- the short version is that she worded it that way so that we would know that things like special alchemical arrows that work with longbows & shortbows also work with the hornbow. Note in her reply she twice mentions that it's an exotic weapon, so I think it's safe to assume that she intended that exotic designation to matter.

This is info from the author is only useful in understanding what they "wanted" but not in actually understanding Paizo's official rule. An Author is NOT a reliable source of information because a Paizo developer has the final say on the rules and very often changes the "intent" of a authors work.

All your getting here are thoughts from other people on the forums. The wording to me is pretty clear that if you are proficient with a Longbow/Shortbow you are also proficient with a hornbow.

But like all things PUT IN A BUG REPORT if you want to talk to LW about the issue. A forum post is NOT A BUG REPORT!!!!!!!

Also of course if your group does not agree you can use the editor to make any changes you wish.

EightBitz · February 20th, 2018, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

Don't agree at all with this statement. When a bow references that it works like other types of bows in Pathfinder it has always meant proficiency. What other "effect" could they be talking about?

This is info from the author is only useful in understanding what they "wanted" but not in actually understanding Paizo's official rule. An Author is NOT a reliable source of information because a Paizo developer has the final say on the rules and very often changes the "intent" of a authors work.

All your getting here are thoughts from other people on the forums. The wording to me is pretty clear that if you are proficient with a Longbow/Shortbow you are also proficient with a hornbow.

But like all things PUT IN A BUG REPORT if you want to talk to LW about the issue. A forum post is NOT A BUG REPORT!!!!!!!

Also of course if your group does not agree you can use the editor to make any changes you wish.

You can also ask on the official Paizo forums for a rules clarification.

ShadowChemosh · February 20th, 2018, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EightBitz

You can also ask on the official Paizo forums for a rules clarification.

True does not hurt. Just we rarely get any official answers for stuff outside the hard back books.

outshyn · February 21st, 2018, 03:06 PM

FAQ opened up on Paizo's forums for this. Mark Moreland is response #50 at the bottom. On page 2 it gets pretty savage as Mark suggests that the text doesn't even mean Rapid Shot or other bow-like feats apply; it only applies to items you carry that have a effect on the bow. I hope the official FAQ isn't that harsh, but at least now I am confident that this was never, ever intended to confer free usage to bards, ninjas, and so on (so you MUST take EWP).

Looks like this is headed for a hard nerfing.

ErinRigh Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 621 February 15th, 2018, 07:48 AM	Can you post the exotic weapon text in entirety? I don't have access to that book
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