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flyteach
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Join Date: Jul 2015
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Old August 16th, 2019, 04:19 AM
LJ, thanks for the update, but it doesn't address the harder questions, some of which are a carry over from other threads, but might be appropriate here. BJ has said that HLO is still a "beta". That's not mentioned above and probably should be to set expectations. Line #1 is disappointing to me as there is much basic functionality (encounter generator, starship builder) that are basic parts of Starfinder (let alone Pathfinder 2E) that aren't implemented, but it seems LW is moving on to Shadowrun. There's been over 18 months of Starfinder "functionality", but only at the most basic levels. $24 is really not a lot. I get that. It seems that chasing the next shiny game system is more important than creating the basic functionality requested by customers for games that are already paid for (and yes, despite not paying the monthly fee, I have laid down much more already for what little is available with a promise the rest is coming later). So, when you say it supports SF and PF2, it's really that you are supporting character generation with those systems, but nothing else (yet). I'm still waiting for the rest.
Flyteach
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dacoobob
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Old August 16th, 2019, 11:05 AM
Reposting a discussion with BJ from another thread, since it's relevant here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ View Post
As we've said elsewhere, HLO is essentially a beta product. This is the reason we have yet to start charging anyone the subscription fee and are letting users continue on for free well past the initial free time given. We want to have a stable product that provides the appropriate functionality for both GMs and players before we call it a full product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dacoobob View Post
You've said that on the forums, but for new or prospective users it's not at all clear that the product is a beta. There's no "early access" or "public betatest" indicators anywhere on the HLO website or marketing materials that I can find-- instead it's advertised like a fully functional product would be.

That's a problem because it sets up an expectation in new users minds that they're getting a finished product, then when they buy in and start using it and find all sorts of "missing" or work-in-progress features, they're pissed off and feel (rightly or wrongly) a bit cheated. The maxim is "Under promise and over deliver", but the imo the HLO marketing does it the other way around, implying a full product and setting up a situation where new users excitedly pay their money, get on and find problems, come to the forums in frustration, and only THEN discover that it was a beta product all along. Or worse yet, they find problems and decide the product sucks without even bothering to search out the forums. That leads to bad word-of-mouth etc-- not because the product is actually bad but because user expectations weren't managed well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ View Post
I'll discuss with the team and see if we can make it more clear in the store.
LJ, are you on the same page with BJ here?

Last edited by dacoobob; August 16th, 2019 at 11:08 AM.
dacoobob is offline   #132 Reply With Quote
qcgreywolf
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Old August 31st, 2019, 04:45 PM
Rob - “There is definitely a downside to this. In the process of switching over to the new product model, it is likely that there will be some number of existing users that choose not to embrace the new model – and, in some cases, can’t. Is that ideal? Of course not. It’s an unfortunate reality of the situation. However, if we stick with the old model, we’ll lose a different – and we believe much larger – set of users as they abandon us because we don’t support the devices they choose to use in their games. We have to pick our poison, as we sadly can’t “do it all”.”

This statement makes me sad. There are already multiple online-only services and there is only one comprehensive offline service: HLC

And now there are likely to be none.
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markelphoenix
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Old September 1st, 2019, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lj Stephens View Post
Hi all. I see several comments that I’d like to address, and I apologize for not responding to them earlier in this thread. I hope this helps to answer some of your many questions.

1. Hero Lab Online currently supports Starfinder and Pathfinder 2. In the fall it will also support Shadowrun 6.

2. The $25 per year is a nominal subscription fee for server access to HLO. It breaks down to about $2 per month to be able to access your characters on any device, and it doesn’t begin for some time yet.

3. Not only do we have a demo version of HLO, but we also have a 60-day money-back guarantee, should you decide it’s not for you.

4. There are future plans to allow you to migrate your content from HLC to HLO for a less-than-$20, one-time fee.

5. We apologize for the periodic downtime. We do announce those times in advance when we can. We are continuing to update and improve the product daily. That does require the occasional downtime, and acknowledge the inconvenience to you.

6. Many believe the HLO character sheet is an improvement over the HLC character sheet and we are continuing to listen to comments in an attempt to improve it further.
Have you guys looked into zero downtime deployment strategies? Not sure what you're using for back end, but most cloud providers provide multiple availability zone, so shouldn't be terrible to do rolling maintenance where you bring down Availability zone 1, all traffic goes to Availability zone 2, then you bring 1 back up, and bring down 2.
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maldar
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Old November 26th, 2019, 12:18 PM
I have not been to the forums lately and I read:

Quote:
2. The $25 per year is a nominal subscription fee for server access to HLO. It breaks down to about $2 per month to be able to access your characters on any device, and it doesn’t begin for some time yet.
I have been paying a fee every 6 months for the past year and a half roughly. Is it only those that have PF2 that are not paying, but the SF players are paying?
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Mergon
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Old November 26th, 2019, 12:58 PM
HeroLab Online is only for Pathfinder 2 (pathfinder goen the way of D&D 4E imo, and thus a rpg on its way into the trash heap like 4E) and Starfinder, which I also don't play.

I use HLC since it still supports the original Pathfinder which I still use, and D&D 5E. Why pay a subscription fee for something that doesn't support what I use.

In addition, until recently, I did a lot of Homebrew in HLC (D&D 5E) and I don't think the same amount of customiztion is available in HLO . . .

Watch your back, Conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
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dacoobob
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Old November 26th, 2019, 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maldar View Post
I have been paying a fee every 6 months for the past year and a half roughly. Is it only those that have PF2 that are not paying, but the SF players are paying?
I've been using HLO for Starfinder since Oct 2017 (just over two years) and haven't paid any server fees yet.
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BJ
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Old November 26th, 2019, 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maldar View Post
I have not been to the forums lately and I read:



I have been paying a fee every 6 months for the past year and a half roughly. Is it only those that have PF2 that are not paying, but the SF players are paying?
We aren't charging for Hero Lab Online server time at the moment, and we've never even made the mechanism to do so public. Is it possible you've confused this with a Realm Works subscription? If not, can you please contact support@wolflair.com with proof of charges so we can get to the bottom of the confusion for you.

Thanks!
BJ is offline   #138 Reply With Quote
sambomb
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Old May 28th, 2020, 09:13 AM
As a avid user of herolab through the years, i spent almost 500 dollars buying pathfinder addons.
I think the price is well paid because I can use it forever (if I make a decent backup of my things).
The main reason to go online is to enable almost any device to get access but you still limit to one device.
The online version needs to buy each module, buy subscription ( Yeah, i know you are not charging YET ) and dont have any kind of security of the service, some examples:
  1. Your servers can get down in split seconds by a DDoS
  2. My internect connection can fail
  3. Your company can go out of business
  4. The currency can get more expensive, yeah your company have customers from around the globe! The 500 dollars that I spent are mostly when the Dollar cost less then 2 brazilian Real/ 3 brazilian Real, now its over 6 brazilian Real each dollar in the credit card!
Instead of charge the costumers to BUY and SUBSCRIBE you should make only one!

Subscribe to get everything released so far its an example, so instead of have to pay the full price and be asked to pay more later, just pay a subscrition to get everything.
sambomb is offline   #139 Reply With Quote
Itzi
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Old May 29th, 2020, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sambomb View Post
I think the price is well paid because I can use it forever (if I make a decent backup of my things).
I know that I should just keep my trap shut because this argument will keep being brought up, but people keep saying this about HLC - 'Unlike HLO, HLC is mine. I'll be able to use it forever.', conveniently forgetting (or, more likely, ignoring) the fact that HLC uses a licensing server. If (gods forbid) Lone Wolf ever shuts its doors, then enjoy the very limited time you have left to use the software, because you won't be able to activate it again on a new computer/updated OS.

It sounds like the model isn't for you. Good on ya. That fact doesn't mean that it's an inherently bad model. For many of us, HLO works great and will only get better. (Particularly when PF1 comes to the platform. nudge, nudge).
Itzi is offline   #140 Reply With Quote
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