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jlong05
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Old April 5th, 2013, 03:09 PM
Hmmm.. maybe I should have been paying more attention lately as I didn't even know my signature finally got some comments. Kind of funny it has been there for 6 months now and no one has complained until now, and then only because they took my post out of context and didn't fully understand my position on these forums.

I guess in the future I should simply respond to question posts like this as:

http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=12000
http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=7998
http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=7454

All of these are posted as Sticky messages as well(assuming people read those, which we have confirmed many do not.) I personally like the last best as it was posted by our prior leader Harkan in February of 2008 which said EXACTLY what I said in my above post.

EDIT:

@darkvector; I don't presume to tell you what is appropriate in your signature, please don't tell us either. I have had this stand since the mid year price hike from GW last year without a single complaint from users, staff or otherwise. In fact I have this SAME signature on several other sites as well, without ever a comment to remove or that someone was offended. When GW decides to listen to their customer base and produce quality products at reasonable prices I will be happy to amend my statement. Considering your time on these forums(Joined April 2013 and only posted in this single thread complaining about my response) I take your comments for the trolling effort they are.

@edavi830; thanks for continuing the never-ending process of confirming the average user fails to read any stickied topic prior to posting. Had you read those stickied topics(linked in the post above) you would have seen what Mr Spack also stated in that LW and us have no part with each other. Considering your time on these forums(Joined April 2013 and only posted this single post) I take your comments for the trolling effort they are. (BTW, are you and darkvector friends or something.. sheesh) Hopefully this post and Spacks will help the rest of the community in understanding how the files are supported. Now, do I want to see LW affected, no, but as a consumer, you should get your facts straight before making comments as you did. You wouldn't hold Wal-Mart responsible for something a customer of theirs in store said about the poor products in the store now would you?

The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.

Last edited by jlong05; April 5th, 2013 at 03:25 PM. Reason: responses to others
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darkvector
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Old April 7th, 2013, 09:05 PM
Just because i only joined the forum the other day dosnt mean im a troll i have had lone wolf products for over 5 years i mearly decided to have a look on the forum worst mistake i ever made . I realise that the site is volenterly updated but i was mearly objecting to the way you answered his question which could have been much more tolerant. Dont tell me you dint mean as a (oh blast another person asking me a dumb question that i dont have time for id better show whos boss ) and even if you did make it with another intent then you obviosly havent got it across well. As to your sig well i think you should rethink it if you represent the site in any capacity its ok if your an individual but not as a person who updates. Its allso very easy to tell people if you dont like it then do it yourself not a very helpfull or mature comment as
the way you do updates would stuff it up time and time again and besides i pay a licencing fee to keep the files current...... anyways good day to you again.
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UltraPrime
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Old April 7th, 2013, 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkvector View Post
besides i pay a licencing fee to keep the files current...... anyways good day to you again.
No, you absolutely do not. You pay a licencing fee to keep Army Builder current, and to get access to any automatic updates. If nobody released any files whatsoever, no promises would be broken. Lone Wolf have NOTHING to do with the data files, and data file authors have NOTHING to do with Lone Wolf. We do this in our spare time. If we don't have the time, we can't update them. Speaking for myself, I am a single father of two, and they get priority. If I get time to work on files, I do it. If not, I don't.

If you can keep your head while all about you are loosing their's, then you have probably completely misunderstood the situation.

WFB Armies: High Elves (4,500), Orcs & Goblins (6,000) and Daemons of Chaos (6,000)
40K Armies: Ultramarines (6,500), Blood Angels (7,000), Dark Angels (4,000), Imperial Guard (3,500), Orks (4,500), Tyranids (4,000), Dark Eldar (2,500) and Tau Empire (2,500)
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jlong05
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Old April 8th, 2013, 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraPrime View Post
No, you absolutely do not. You pay a licencing fee to keep Army Builder current, and to get access to any automatic updates. If nobody released any files whatsoever, no promises would be broken. Lone Wolf have NOTHING to do with the data files, and data file authors have NOTHING to do with Lone Wolf. We do this in our spare time. If we don't have the time, we can't update them. Speaking for myself, I am a single father of two, and they get priority. If I get time to work on files, I do it. If not, I don't.
This +1

I still think that no matter how many times we all say it, how many times we all post it, the general user base fails to read the licensing agreement on Army Builder.

To reiterate, your purchase of Army Builder and licensing grants you use of the application, free updates to the app as released by Lonewolf and finally access to the automatic file download system.

Additionally you are granted access to the ABCreator tool to create files.

What you are not promised is actual FILES. You may create these with ABCreator, or you may use files created by others, but LoneWolf DOES NOT create the files for any GW licensed game. They are NOT ALLOWED to help in the file creation of any GW licensed game and finally their hosting server is not allowed to HOST and files from a GW licensed game.

Hopefully this is more clear.

The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.
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Wildcard1980
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Old April 8th, 2013, 10:20 AM
I just want to take the time to thank you and the guys like you that give your time so that players like Me can have an easier time making armies. So thanks again and I hope your week goes well.

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edavi830
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Old April 8th, 2013, 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlong05 View Post
This +1

I still think that no matter how many times we all say it, how many times we all post it, the general user base fails to read the licensing agreement on Army Builder.

To reiterate, your purchase of Army Builder and licensing grants you use of the application, free updates to the app as released by Lonewolf and finally access to the automatic file download system.

Additionally you are granted access to the ABCreator tool to create files.

What you are not promised is actual FILES. You may create these with ABCreator, or you may use files created by others, but LoneWolf DOES NOT create the files for any GW licensed game. They are NOT ALLOWED to help in the file creation of any GW licensed game and finally their hosting server is not allowed to HOST and files from a GW licensed game.

Hopefully this is more clear.
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I really wish i'd never checked out the forums. I think I can pretty much say for just about everyone who uses this product that NO ONE buys it thinking "well jeez now I can make my own data files!".

I've talked to my entire playgroup about this and shown them this thread, most of us have purchased a license to use this product and were quite a bit put off to learn that we are paying money on a yearly basis to help support a company who really profits from the work of un-compensated volunteers. As I stated before NONE OF US purchase this software thinking that we will be creating our own files.

I need to say that as volunteers you do fantastic work with the software. That said, myself and several others of us (after having it made clear to us how this works) will no longer continue to purchase the licenses to use this product. It's a shame because it's a great program, and great work is done with the datafiles. However I cannot, in good conscience (and neither can several others in my group) continue to support a business that clearly profits from the works of unpaid volunteers, who are also clearly bitter that they are uncompensated and (seemingly) unappreciated.

My earlier post was did contain a bit of frustration, but it was born of a bitter response to someone who was clearly asking an innocent and honest question who pays to use this product. The response to that person by a "datafile author" was clearly venemous; as have been the responses made by other "senior members" in response to my post as well as others.

In summary I just want to make the point that I understand your predicament, but your attitude stinks, and it has lost Lonewolf three or four customers, for whatever that is worth.

Last edited by edavi830; April 8th, 2013 at 04:11 PM.
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morkalg
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Old April 8th, 2013, 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcard1980 View Post
I just want to take the time to thank you and the guys like you that give your time so that players like Me can have an easier time making armies. So thanks again and I hope your week goes well.
Indeed! I tried my hand at making army files once... not my thing at all. I do however maintain a campaign website and a custom wiki for my gaming group and so in the smallest way I can empathize with all the hard work you guys put into the files.

To bad people don't bother to read and/or understand exactly how the software they spend hard earned money on actually works. I get as impatient as the next guy for updated files but I appreciate the effort to make them so I just bide my time.

This thread though has been entertaining.
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morkalg
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Old April 8th, 2013, 05:11 PM
Quote:
However I cannot, in good conscience (and neither can several others in my group) continue to support a business that clearly profits from the works of unpaid volunteers, who are also clearly bitter that they are uncompensated and (seemingly) unappreciated.
(1) I have no affiliation at all with Lone Wolf Development.

(2) I do NOT make/edit army builder files nor am I affiliated with the creators.

Please understand the above.

You are totally entitled to your opinion on how you spend your money but I think you should consider that Lone Wolf would probably LOVE to be able to create 40K army builder files. Their hands are tied however by Games Workshop and the iron fisted control they maintain over their IP.

Of course... it IS theirs to do with as they please.

I play all the Warhammer 40K RPG's published by Fantasy Flight Games and am a beta tester for Realm Works and use it extensively to manage my 40K game campaigns. I also own Hero Lab and would love to use it to manage my players characters for my 40K games. I've talked to the developers, even got an internet petition going and got all the signatures I set out for to try and get FFG to allow Lone Wolf to make Hero Lab files but all of it was shot down by Games Workshop. Both sides would love to be able to do this and I'm sure there are a lot of other companies out there that could produce interesting 40K related products if only the licensing was allowed but it all comes back to what Games Workshop will allow NOT Lone Wolf.

Maybe the data file creators do feel taken advantage of, I'm not going to speak for them, but choosing not to support a program that I feel does every single they that CAN legally do to make our hobby easier and more accessible only hurts the hobby in the long run.

Just my two cents.

Last edited by morkalg; April 8th, 2013 at 05:15 PM. Reason: fixed a quote
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jlong05
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Old April 8th, 2013, 05:14 PM
While we thank you for your willingness to limit your personal use of army builder due to a misunderstanding on how files are created, I don't think any current, past, or future data file creator/maintainer feels that lonewolfs is making money off their hard work.

I know for myself I work on the files because I play the game, enjoy the game, and use the files as a game aide myself. This in effects show the datafiles maintainer process ever started. As a game comes, someone decides to make the files as a aide for themselves and provide it for others.

Holding lonewolf or army builder responsile for not understanding this is just bad for you. As stated before, I am not bitter or upset, and while my response was pointed and short, it was not in anyway bitter or rude. As I indicated, simply a review of the forums and the sticky traded items would have given a baseline of when rules are available.

Since in general we have to answer this same question about every other month(basically as each new codex is released by GW) one can see where it has become faster to answer as I did and not as we use to do in long personalized posts or pm's. instead we posted a sticky thread and also listed the same details in the FAQ.

Also remember, that the files exist for more than just GW, and there are many other great games available. The licensing system is great for keeping all your games updated.

The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.
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jlong05
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Old April 9th, 2013, 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlong05 View Post
Since in general we have to answer this same question about every other month(basically as each new codex is released by GW) one can see where it has become faster to answer as I did and not as we use to do in long personalized posts or pm's. instead we posted a sticky thread and also listed the same details in the FAQ.
I hate to quote myself, but just had to for this:

http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=43440

I rest my case.

The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.
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