Big and Dense

[Lord]

Hi all,
I have a player who wants to be big and dense.
he took both powers at his PL (now 7)
the bonus the character gains to STR is greater than allowed.
even if we lower the "regular" STR to 0, he still gains more STR than he should (growth(7) and dense(7) together gives 28 bonus to STR, he is allowed to have only 24).
now, we dont mind him having greater strength than usual as long as it doesnt pass the normal caps but the HL minds... the HL "warns" me about this bonus all the time.

the questions are:
1. can I make the software accept negative bonus to STR ? (could solve the problem).
2. can I give negative bonuses to unarmed damage ? (could solve he problem too).
3. is there another option to sole this issue ?

thanks for the help.

[Duggan]

There is an option under the selection of packages to allow negative traits. I think you can use a combination of that and Enhanced Trait to produce negative strength bonuses. I had to do the same with a Shrinking/Compression character.

The next question might be whether PL-rank Growth and Density are really what he wants. Both powers essentially exist to give bonuses to Strength and Toughness and, other than the per-rank bonus, Growth 4 and Density 6 gives him all of the crunchy bits like Impervious Toughness, Extended Reach, etc, but with +4 less of a damage bonus on his unarmed.

[Lord]

Originally Posted by Duggan

There is an option under the selection of packages to allow negative traits. I think you can use a combination of that and Enhanced Trait to produce negative strength bonuses. I had to do the same with a Shrinking/Compression character.

The next question might be whether PL-rank Growth and Density are really what he wants. Both powers essentially exist to give bonuses to Strength and Toughness and, other than the per-rank bonus, Growth 4 and Density 6 gives him all of the crunchy bits like Impervious Toughness, Extended Reach, etc, but with +4 less of a damage bonus on his unarmed.

As for the 2nd question: he wants to be the biggest and densest. even if it wont give him any bonus at all. His reasons are role-play only and for that I tend to approve it to him.
I will try the negative traits you mentioned.
Thanks for the help

[Lord]

Originally Posted by Duggan

There is an option under the selection of packages to allow negative traits. I think you can use a combination of that and Enhanced Trait to produce negative strength bonuses. I had to do the same with a Shrinking/Compression character.

The next question might be whether PL-rank Growth and Density are really what he wants. Both powers essentially exist to give bonuses to Strength and Toughness and, other than the per-rank bonus, Growth 4 and Density 6 gives him all of the crunchy bits like Impervious Toughness, Extended Reach, etc, but with +4 less of a damage bonus on his unarmed.

I used it, and it "did" the trick, but instead of giving him points back, it only cost him !
Reducing the STR by 4 should have given him +4 points. instead, the power itself cost 1, so he "lost" 5 points....
Well, I used custom adder to another power and lowered it from there. not the best way I could think of, but it works.

[Duggan]

Ah... I feared that might be the case. By the book, every power costs -1 at the highest and Enhanced Attributes is included in that list.

FWIW, the abilities of Growth are supposed to be circumstantial and not count toward caps unless Permanent. HeroLab does a slightly naive interpretation, counting PL for the current state including all circumstantial modifiers. Density is not considered circumstantial because it only provides bonuses (outside of very situational things like not being able to swim or possibly crashing through the floor).

You might be able to set things up using a Container, doing the negative attributes there, but that may also result in a few leftover points. If he can only grow to that "biggest and hardest" form, you've got the Full Power drawback, of course.

As regards "Being the biggest and the densest", powers like Growth and Shrinking are not PL-capped outside of the effects they have, so there's no real reason to have that hard limit at 7. And since Height and Weight are flavor for the most part, Growth 4 and Density 6 doesn't have to be at all different from the height and weight for someone at 7 and 7. Just different strength bonuses, really.

[Shadowchaser]

Originally Posted by Lord

As for the 2nd question: he wants to be the biggest and densest. even if it wont give him any bonus at all. His reasons are role-play only and for that I tend to approve it to him.
I will try the negative traits you mentioned.
Thanks for the help

For the effects which do not affect PL aspects of the character (Size and Mass, generally) you could simply have him buy ranks of Features for each increase in JUST THOSE traits. 1 Rank of Feature could be '+1 Rank of size' and another could be '+1 Rank of Mass' or what-have-you.

[Colen]

If you want to add ability changes for "free", go to the Adjustments tab, and add a temporary attribute adjustment. You should be able to change any attribute by any number of points, and it won't affect your PP cost.