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Tavaro Evanis
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Join Date: Jun 2020
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Old July 9th, 2020, 11:12 PM


A level 1 bard may cast 2 1st spells per day (Core Rules, p. 98, Table 3-6). However, the Maestro muse permitted Hero Lab to add the Soothe spell to my spell repertoire in addition to the two 1st spells I already chose, granting me three 1st level spells.

Further, a Bard begins with 1 focus point, but my as my Hero Lab sheet indicates, I somehow have 2 focus points.

I have no customizations enabled, so this Bard is 100% vanilla. Either I'm not fully grasping the PF2e Bard rules, or this is a bug.


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Ryan F
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Old July 11th, 2020, 10:34 AM
Hello Tavaro,

The source of this second Focus Point is from the Lingering Composition Class Feat that is granted by the Maestro Muse. When this feat is added it grants the Lingering Composition Focus Spell and also increases the Focus Pool by 1.

Take this and add on top of the existing Focus Pool that is granted by the Composition Spells Class Feature and you will find any Maestro Bard will begin play with two Focus Points.

I hope this helps clarify what you're seeing and why, I'm also linking the official online reference document for the feature below too.
Lingering Composition Feat

Thanks!
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Tavaro Evanis
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Old July 11th, 2020, 01:56 PM
Thanks for clearing that up!

Is HLO showing the correct number of spells per day?
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Dami
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Old July 11th, 2020, 04:00 PM
The rulebook says "You gain the Lingering Composition feat and add "Soothe" to your spell repertoire." So, yes, you start with three spells.

Current RPG's: Pathfinder (GM), Pathfinder (Player), Gamma World (GM, Pathfinder homebrew).
HeroLab: 3.5 & Pathfinder. HL User Files for PF: Greyhawk Setting, Gamma World (WIP).

DM and player of D&D since 1980.
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Tavaro Evanis
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Old July 11th, 2020, 08:29 PM
Please see Core page 98, Table 3-6. A level 1 Bard may cast 2 1st level spells per day. I understand that my spell repertoire (aka known spells) versus my current number of spell slots are entirely different. However, I suspect HLO is in error for giving me the additional 1st level spell PLUS the additional spell slot. My original post includes a screenshot of my 3 starting spells, and it indicates that I have 1 of each spell remaining for the day: a total of three spells per day. I'll have to manually set one spell to zero to comply with Table 3-6.

Last edited by Tavaro Evanis; July 11th, 2020 at 09:53 PM.
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charlieluce
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Old July 11th, 2020, 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dami View Post
The rulebook says "You gain the Lingering Composition feat and add "Soothe" to your spell repertoire." So, yes, you start with three spells.
The ruleboook also says (bottom of page 96) "Though you gain them at the same rate, your spell slots and the spells in your spell repertoire are separate. If a feat or other ability adds a spell to your spell repertoire, it wouldn’t give you another spell slot, and vice versa."


Looking at Paizo's 1st level character sheet for Lem, the iconic bard, it lists his 1st level spells as Charm, Fear, and Soothe and notes that "He can cast his 1st-level spells two times per day in any combination".


So it looks like it is indeed a bug.

Currently Running: Pathfinder Second Edition
Currently Playing: D&D 4e,
Pathfinder First Edition
Former Games: D&D 5e, Mutants & Masterminds (2E & 3E), Savage Worlds
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Tavaro Evanis
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Old July 11th, 2020, 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieluce View Post
Looking at Paizo's 1st level character sheet for Lem, the iconic bard, it lists his 1st level spells as Charm, Fear, and Soothe and notes that "He can cast his 1st-level spells two times per day in any combination".


So it looks like it is indeed a bug.
Thank you for the confirmation! I filled out a bug report over a week ago.
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Parody
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Old July 12th, 2020, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavaro Evanis View Post
My original post includes a screenshot of my 3 starting spells, and it indicates that I have 1 of each spell remaining for the day: a total of three spells per day. I'll have to manually set one spell to zero to comply with Table 3-6.
Have you tried changing them? On my first level Bard, they start at 2 to show you have 2 1st level spells remaining and can cast any of them. When you click the minus button they all change together to 1, then 0. Resting puts them back to 2.

It's just a quirk of the UI for casters that don't memorize spells.

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Tavaro Evanis
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Old July 12th, 2020, 10:14 AM
Yes, I've observed the behavior you described. This part of the Bard UI is wonky. I'll adjust the spells manually until we get a fix.
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Daniel V
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Old July 31st, 2020, 03:06 PM
Let me break this down to see if I can understand where the potential observed issue lies. A level 1 bard is created with the maestro muse. This adds soothe to your spells known. So:

1. You have 2 spells known to select, plus soothe already present. Your bonus muse spell does not count against your total spells known.

2. You have 2 spells slots with which to cast per day. Soothe being added to your repertoire does not increase your number of spell slots, so this is still correct. With these two slots, you can cast any combination of the spells in your repertoire, hence the incrementers operating in tandem.

I'm seeing both of these operating as expected, but are there deviations observed? Just trying to figure out if something weird is happening outside the norm, or if it's a case of misunderstanding. Thanks!
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