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shaggai
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Matawan, NJ, USA
Posts: 159

Old June 29th, 2012, 07:29 PM
I probably have more to say in the future after I actually get a chance for some spare time, but for now let me say that as far as I am aware of things at the moment, the ab40k files will march onward.

With the advent of a new edition, there are some things which would need to be updated. However with the new look on allies, it may require some additional programming. With this as the case, as well as our general moritorium on updates to the AB40K files, the next update to the files that will include 6E updates will be available no sooner than August 1st.

CASH FOR THE CASH GOD!!! MORE COINS!!! MORE COINS!!!
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stucarius
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Old June 30th, 2012, 09:22 PM
I want to propose a third possibility. This is part of GW's new war on tournament play of 40K as it exist today.

I got my rules at midnight last night and drove home 3 hours in the middle of the night. You might call me a HUGE fan boy. I even spend a lot of time running a major podcast and blog. SO I am very committed (in every way) to 40K.

I have gone from being giddy little school girl so excited by 6th ed that I could not contain myself ( I even have a still unfulfilled order for the $150 buck with shipping collector copy) to what I am now less that 12 hours of exposure to 6th ed and the travesty of a joke the FAQ's are. I am so upset I really cannot even express it well.

6Th Ed is obviously at every level anti organized play in nature. It is literally as if they had that as part of their design mandate. It is full of outstanding and well established game methods that we have all been begging GW to do for years and years.

The problem is that it is an unholy mess. Not the writing or necessarily the organization but what they actually did to the mechanics and individual rules which just destroyed the viability of multiple armies and characters. Kharn is only able to hit at initiative 1? Really?The implementation is just so bad that a bunch of kids who have never played a game could have done better. It is so bad in fact that I will call first thing Monday morning to see if I can please cancel my collectors edition.

I think that trying to kill Army Builder may very well be part of their war against tournaments. With out having AB list to draw from TO will have a nightmare time having to confirm and add up all these army list created in all sorts of short hand methods.

I am sorry for rambling on but I am a 47 year old man who loves this game and I am nearly in tears as it becomes increasingly obvious that this new edition of 40K is a train wreck. To hear that they have attacked the community again through a tool we have all used for years and which is in all likelihood completely safe because GW chose more than a decade ago not to challenge this use of its IP.

I really hope Lone Wolf Like Chapter House has done, steps up and challenges this school yard bully like behavior.

Sorry this is such a mess. I have been reading these rules and play testing them for 12 hours and I am dead on my feet. To bad only 16 people ever had a piece of designing 6th ed. It shows.

Good Luck!
Jeff

Last edited by stucarius; June 30th, 2012 at 09:26 PM.
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pivich
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Old June 30th, 2012, 11:56 PM
And i've just pay for the license ;(

sad sad news
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morkalg
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 03:26 AM
Sometimes I wonder if they just enjoy crapping where they eat?
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tupenzero
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Old July 5th, 2012, 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pivich View Post
And i've just pay for the license ;(

sad sad news
Me too. I have had my eye on this product for years and wanted to use it for 6th ed. I just bought this 2 days ago and now if there is no support allowed for GW games, then I've pretty well wasted my money. I'm very sad and disappointed to hear this.
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philosopherof40k
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Old July 5th, 2012, 04:20 PM
So I hope that means those of us that purchased a license that is still active that purchased this for 40k will be either credited extra months of updates equal to the time it takes to resolve this issue or refunded our purchase price seeing as how we were mislead to believe that this was a legal contract with GW to use their name. I mean it's not like this program was only ten bucks. If you are no longer providing updates for 40k and 6th edition then I am effectively getting burnt for over half the money I paid for AB seeing as I have more than half a year left on my updates which will be wasted. I mean isn't there anyone on the Lonewolf team that can buy a 6th edition rulebook and incorporate the new rules into the update, I mean that is why we paid for this product right?
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al_g
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Old July 11th, 2012, 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philosopherof40k View Post
So I hope that means those of us that purchased a license that is still active that purchased this for 40k will be either credited extra months of updates equal to the time it takes to resolve this issue or refunded our purchase price seeing as how we were mislead to believe that this was a legal contract with GW to use their name. I mean it's not like this program was only ten bucks. If you are no longer providing updates for 40k and 6th edition then I am effectively getting burnt for over half the money I paid for AB seeing as I have more than half a year left on my updates which will be wasted. I mean isn't there anyone on the Lonewolf team that can buy a 6th edition rulebook and incorporate the new rules into the update, I mean that is why we paid for this product right?
You were never misled to believe that there was a contract between GW and Lone Wolf. Everything on this site and when buying the Army Builder software makes it clear that Army Builder is only a framework and other people have to provide the data files for Army Builder to work properly. You can go build your own data files for 6th edition if you want, just takes a lot of effort. In the FAQ Lone Wolf states that they don't develop most of the data files.

You haven't lost any functionality and the AB40K team has said they are going to continue developing 6th edition.

Lone Wolf owes you absolutely nothing.
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Crimsonshark
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Old July 11th, 2012, 12:32 PM
This is a portion of the Please Read First post in the 40K section of the forums

"Intellectual Property. All games systems have copywrights on their game material. If we developed our files and charged for the service, we could be sued by GW for instance as we are making money on their product. As such we do develop our files, but they ARE NOT a replacement for the printed codex rules. In fact, you are still required to own the Codex rules if you use the datafiles.

As for LW making the files themselves, these same issues would arise for them. This is a key reason for LW specifically NOT providing datafiles. They also DO NOT HOST the files. They do however provide a services that when files are updated and those datafile maintainers provide the file locations, AB will get the updated files for you. You however are not required to use the auto-update feature and therefor not pay the annual subscription."

Also in the home page of Lone Wolf, there was never anything to suggest that they had any type of sanction from GW, product is a list building program compatable with game systems like 40k and Fantasy, nor do you need to continue to pay the subscription to import the new data files created by unpaid volunteers and not Lone Wolf, again from the please read first post

"The purchase of Army Builder did not provide you the purchase of datafile rulesets also. It DID however provide you the tools to create any datafile ruleset you wish. Every person is more than able to maintain their own files. I personally recommend against it, as if everyone did their own files then how do you know their version is correct? But if we are not getting something done fast enough, that is an option provided."

The data file maintainers also have not been sued or had any action taken against them, it was the host server that had to remove the files, the maintainers are still planning on updating the files.
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rob
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Old July 11th, 2012, 02:23 PM
We spent the past week at PaizoCon, so we're now finally back and getting caught up on everything. In this post, I'll attempt to address a few important items brought up in posts above.

1. All of the data files, save a few from long-outdated products that haven't been updated in many years for which the author email addresses no longer work, have been re-hosted. So there has been almost zero interruption.

2. Thus far, not a single data file author has been contacted by GW. This significantly reinforces the working theory that someone in GW legal took action against a single site, without there being any "greater agenda" lurking behind the scenes. If GW really wanted the files to stop, they would contact the authors and/or contact us. Neither has happened.

3. As pointed out above, the assorted data file authors are continuing to develop their respective files with every intention of releasing them in the exact way they always have. The only difference is a new hosting site, which is irrelevant to users leveraging the Updates mechanism.

4. Also as pointed out above, Army Builder is sold as a framework, with the data files developed and distributed separately. We don't develop the data files for GW's products, and that's because we can't legally do so. However, we can make it easy to access the data files created by others. This is outlined on our website and in a number of places within the product. It's a lot like the distinction between Excel and spreadsheets written to utilize Excel.

5. We stand by our products and have always offered a 60-day money-back guarantee. That's not changing. If anyone wants a refund, they simply need to contact support with the appropriate order number or license number to request it.

To sum up...

This has essentially been a non-event for users. Had we chosen to stay quiet about it, probably nobody other than the data files authors would have ever noticed the change, since the availability of data files has been virtually uninterrupted through the Updates mechanism. However, it's always been our policy to be forthright with our users, so we outlined what was going on.

Based on how everything has transpired, there is absolutely zero reason to assume anything has fundamentally changed regarding Games Workshop's views towards Army Builder. There is simply no evidence to support such conclusions at this point, since not *one* action (out of many) that would be expected from GW in such a scenario have been taken. The declaration that Army Builder is "doomed" is akin to Chicken Little declaring "The sky is falling!" Given how things have played out thus far, there is simply no factual basis for that belief.

All that being said, we'll happily refund recent purchases for anyone who is still worried.

Last edited by rob; July 12th, 2012 at 03:51 AM. Reason: added clarity in a couple places
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gmerrick
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Old July 11th, 2012, 04:14 PM
Rob, what kind of notice was sent to the hosting site? Was it an official DMCA takedown notice, or a letter from GW's lawyers asking for the data to be removed?

Considering that the MLB lost a major case regarding the use of player stats, GW might want to be carefull in what they do as it could come back and bite them.
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