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rob
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Old June 3rd, 2016, 04:10 AM
@Acenoid: If you provide me with 100% reliable details on how Windows reports hardware configuration across all versions of its operating systems, we'll adopt your recommendation tomorrow. Sadly, Microsoft is HORRIBLY inconsistent across different types of hardware and different versions of the O/S. You'd think this is something they'd be highly motivated to be very consistent, right? Well, the reality is just the opposite. So we've been forced to utilize a combination of things that together yield a high confidence in whether the computer has changed.

@Destrin: For the record, all the checks have NOTHING to do with ensuring you're registered. They have EVERYTHING to do with ensuring users don't end up in a situation where their data can get completely stuffed up. So the logic is extremely paranoid as a precaution. Going into all the details is a deep rabbit hole, and I need to stay focused on the upcoming release right now. But the problem is a combination of Windows being horrid for allowing us to reliably verify the computer hasn't changed and the need to make sure everybody's data has guaranteed integrity.
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Gord
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Old June 4th, 2016, 10:17 AM
I'm pretty sure that most of us would rather you err on the side of caution when it comes to data integrity Rob. While I do regular backups, even those get corrupted because of unknown issues being propagated and saved. The thought of losing my work in RW is something I don't want to contemplate.
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Destrin
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Old June 6th, 2016, 04:39 AM
Sorry, my point about registration was not about ensuring correct product but exactly what you say Rob, that it's about ensuring data consistency, however, I'd personally take exactly the opposite approach and say I'd MUCH rather you erred on the side of allowing us to use the product offline no matter what.

Currently RW is a frustrating product to use as I cannot use it to run games anywhere without an internet connection and I cannot work on my realms on my commute or whilst on a flight, this markedly reduces it's usefulness to me and although I appreciate the need to maintain data consistency, you have a backup function and that worked perfectly well for the period of time prior to you giving us the online functionality. My RW usage has declined sharply since you added cloud support all precisely because of these issues and I'd say it's the number one problem that needs to be fixed with the product.
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rob
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Old June 6th, 2016, 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destrin View Post
I'd say it's the number one problem that needs to be fixed with the product.
Unfortunately, you appear to be one of a scant few that are encountering problems with this. Almost everybody seems to be able to fully utilize RW offline. So characterizing this as you have above is far from accurate for the vast majority of users.

Having a backup is fine for someone who doesn't mind losing a chunk of work and restoring from that backup. My guess is that lots of users are not nearly as disciplined about making backups as you probably are. So it's likely that you'll find plenty of users taking the opposing stance, especially since they aren't having any difficulty using RW offline.

It sure sounds like something very unusual is going on with the way you've got your computer configured. For example, I don't have any problems with VPN screwing with my offline access. Perhaps the answer here is figuring out a way to tweak your configuration to eliminate whatever is gumming things up for you? Have you explored that possibility already?
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Destrin
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Old June 6th, 2016, 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
It sure sounds like something very unusual is going on with the way you've got your computer configured. For example, I don't have any problems with VPN screwing with my offline access. Perhaps the answer here is figuring out a way to tweak your configuration to eliminate whatever is gumming things up for you? Have you explored that possibility already?
It's not unusual, it's the MAC address rewrite that occurs every time the system boots, it happens in Cisco, Juniper and F5 networks VPN software, I've tested all 3 of them (and I'm a network engineer by day so I know the process is standard for enterprise grade VPN software). I had the discussion with David P over email back when this bug was logged in 2014, he said he'd discuss things with the rest of the team to see if there was a way round it within RW since the only option from a VPN perspective is to uninstall the software (not really an option if I want to use this laptop for my day job).

So far options I've explored:
Uninstall the VPN software (works, but then I need it - so it's not a workable solution)
Disable the network adapter (doesn't work, RW sees the changing MAC still even if the adapter is disabled)
Run in a VM (this kind of works but sadly leaves me incapable of using the 'player view' within RW which is far and away the best feature you guys have, so this is sort of a solution but it takes away one of my favourite features)

I can run in a sort of hybrid mode where I use the native machine installed copy when I have a network connection and the VM copy for when I don't but this makes me working process really difficult, not least of which I need to keep all the various copies in sync (this was easier beforehand when we had dropbox syncing as an option)

My concern of having it fixed within RW is that there are other players with this error and it's really not obvious when it happens. This thread we're talking on is one example and there is another here: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=49660 (judging by the thread there I think David put a specific NIC exclusion in for that user - we discussed that when I first started having the error but I completely understand your reasons for not wanting to do that as that strikes me as bad practice)

I do understand your issues but it feels very restrictive and arbitrary when RW decides that on this boot it's not going to give you access to your realms. Most users are going to know when they have synced their data and when they haven't, being prevented from accessing your stuff when you know it's up to date and in sync (because I just did it before shutting down and leaving to start my commute) is really quite frustrating, I kind of feel there has to be another way round the problem than the current implementation? Even if it just said 'we don't think you're up to date, but if you want to press on and potentially be working from an old copy of the data, on your head be it' I'd be happy to accept that risk!
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rob
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Old June 10th, 2016, 06:21 PM
We think we've got something figured out for this that will be in the imminent release. Look for details in the upcoming status update and the release notes.
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Destrin
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Old June 14th, 2016, 09:02 AM
*Potentially Excited*

and thank you
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woobyluv
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Old June 28th, 2016, 10:06 AM
This may have been covered elsewhere, but it seems appropriate to ask here, given the topic, so...

I, for one, don't really want to deal with a cloud service to manage my data. There are several reasons for this, the least of which is relying on someone else to maintain MY data. The question is though, If using RW offline, will it save and be usable by my friends remotely? Is there a way to set up my own cloud, that I control, that others can access with my permission?
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Acenoid
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Old June 28th, 2016, 10:26 AM
Has been covered

The tool was designed with it's own cloud solution in mind, therefore there is no way around creating a realm "online" to register the realm. After that you can work offline and never synch again with this realm. The cloud is needed for realm merging (announced feature) or the ability to act as kind logbook for the players containing the revealed topics if they have the player edition or web access which does not require the player edition, but may only hold a possibly limited part of the revealed realm data (announced feature).

I hope too that this system will be made somewhat more flexible, but this is probably no priority item atm or not planned at all.

At the moment there is also no way of printing or exporting your data, however this has been requested and is on somewere on the LWD todo list. I think they also said to make data accessible in case something happens to the product end of life etc. (but maybe Rob or someone from LWD will correct me on that :P, after all it's probably nothing we can demand in the end.) -- Though the LWD license agreement acknowledges that the data we enter in RW is our intellectual property (I hope this is the right terminology to be sure better doublecheck the agreement).

Anyways I think the tool is great. I completely understand your concerns (as I share them too)

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Last edited by Acenoid; June 28th, 2016 at 10:30 AM.
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Vargr
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Old June 28th, 2016, 10:44 AM
@woobyluv


I have found the cloud solution very useful even though I had my reservations in the beginning. It helps me keeping stuff updated over four computers.

I can still make local backups and store where I want. In case I screw everything up I can import those backups.

Using this method you can work on one machine, make a backup, go to another machine and import that backup. Tiresome in the long run, but it can be done.

Can you import a GM backup to a Player client? Will that reveal everything or will it just not work? I have no idea.

I might be nave but I feel my data are in good hands at LWD and I am not worried (I was in the beginning but that was then). I hope I will never be proven wrong :-)

I have decided to go with the cloud solution as it works well for me, gives me an off-site backup and also because I see it as an investment in future development of the program. LWD has to have continuous flow of revenue in order to survive and churn out more great features.

Vargr
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Legend has it, that the Tarrasque is a huge fighting beast, perpetually hungry.
Sleet entered History when he managed to get on the back of a Tarrasque only to be ridden out of History shortly after.

Using Realm Works, Worldographer (Hexographer 2), LibreOffice, Daz3D Studio, pen & paper for the realm World of Temeon and the system LEFD - both homebrewed.

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