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Ckorik
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Old March 25th, 2017, 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbs666 View Post
?

You seem to think RW is some sort of XML document or the like. It isn't. The underlying structure is a relational database. This has been confirmed and discussed many times.

Links are entirely separate from containers. You may think the two are equivalent but the program treats the two as distinct and separate.
I've never said anything of the sort.

I'll restate it again:

Topic Name: City of Brass
sub-snippet: Stuff about City of Brass

Topic Name: Plane of Fire
sub-snippet: Talks about City of Brass (link to city of brass)

If I change the name of "City of Brass" it will update the link automatically - it will find every link in the database that references City of Brass and update it. The program does this now.

Topic Name: Auto-generated-name-1
sub-snippet: City of Brass (link to city of brass)

This new type of topic isn't any different than the above - nothing in the database has changed (or how it works) - however when rendering the output the program treats any topic like this as special and shows the linked name.

We already know they have a 'rendering engine' - it has a bug that won't show topics if there are too many in a container. There is also logic in the render that decides if a topic is shown or not. This is an extension of that logic.
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kbs666
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Old March 25th, 2017, 12:32 PM
You are confusing things that are unrelated.

Yes, there is a rendering engine that handles displaying the UI, it's called Windows. There is an additional render engine that displays the user data. You seem to be under the impression it is simply creating something along the lines of a single webpage. That is incorrect. Every control is rendered separately. A snippet is a control in case there is any confusion.

Creating links in the program is simple at this point. They simply open topics. Maintaining the table of valid linker names trivial, it is simply every existing topic and article( plus aliases ). What you want is the equivalent of the anchor + bookmark functionality of HTML links which would require LWD to add that functionality, which since there is no DOM is not nearly as simple as you think.

As to your idea of placeholder topics to serve as links to real topics elsewhere in the hierarchy. This shows you truly do not understand the issue. In a DB this would be incredibly wasteful. A record, in the same table, is always the same size. So absolutely nothing would be gained by having a pseudo topic pointing to the "real" through a special snippet. What you seem to really be asking for is the ability to put the same topic in multiple places in the hierarchy which as I explained before is called many to many relationships and is problematic for a number of technical reasons. You can achieve roughly the result you desire by using a single container and establishing a relationship to any other topics as needed.

my Realm Works videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZU...4DwXXkvmBXQ9Yw
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Ckorik
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Old March 25th, 2017, 01:27 PM
Quote:
In a DB this would be incredibly wasteful
Nah - no one cares if we take up an extra 100 or 10000 records for stupid stuff here - because it's not going to process 1 million transactions an hour.

Quote:
Yes, there is a rendering engine that handles displaying the UI, it's called Windows
Look if you want to think I'm stupid then go away. If you honestly think this is true you aren't paying attention to what the devs have already said about their own program. Not everyone uses in the box controls for every program they create. It's pretty obvious they've done custom controls all over the place and my guess would be to ensure (as much as possible) copyright.

Windows doesn't have a bug where it stops displaying items after 1000. This program does - why... oh right - because they have a *custom render function that has a bug*.

Quote:
What you want is the equivalent of the anchor + bookmark functionality of HTML links
You seem to think creating a shortcut is some impossible task - and the only way you would know that is if you had access to the code base - I go back to the fact that this has *nothing to do with the underlying database* as requested.

You keep approaching this problem like a typical DBA - that is you don't understand anything beyond 'make the database do it'. I can do exactly what I want in C++ without ever making a database.

Given that I can then make a database and do all the above with two tables and 3 data types, handling the rest of the logic in the code.

I don't presume that the code base (at this point) would be so easy to modify - I don't get why you presume to know for a fact this is true when the only way you'd know is if you were the one making the program.
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wurzel
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Old March 25th, 2017, 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silveras View Post
I vaguely recall linking to specific Snippets as a maybe-future-long-term kind of something-they-want-to-do that was mentioned in the past.
That is definitely desirable.


DM: Tol'Uluk - game system independent homebrew world (so far AD&D 2, D&D3.5, Fate, Pathfinder, D&D5)
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daplunk
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Old March 25th, 2017, 01:46 PM
Keep it civil guys. The only person who truly knows the answer to this all is Rob.

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kbs666
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Old March 25th, 2017, 01:52 PM
I'll try one more time.

For many to many to work requires an extra table with at least one record for every topic. That means an extra join to build the tree. That is no big deal except that means redoing a lot of stuff that is already long done. I doubt Rob is eager to revisit that stuff.

The controls are not custom. They use a 3rd party library. You can do a search on the forum for which one. I can't be bothered to do it for you. Small shops do not in general write custom controls unless that is their business. LWD is in the business of writing gaming software they sure aren't going to spend time on writing controls.

I know quite a lot about the program. I know there is no DOM. There is no modding capability or scripting capability which would exist if there was a DOM. There are plenty of things you can do when starting from scratch that are substantially more difficult when you try to change an existing program.

Changing how links work is so fundamental to how the program works it would involve a massive change to one of the core functionalities of the program. I'm still not even sure how you would identify a non name that you want to be a link to a snippet. Even in HTML links to bookmarks are almost always hidden by plain text which is a capability not available in RW.

my Realm Works videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZU...4DwXXkvmBXQ9Yw
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Ckorik
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Old March 25th, 2017, 04:49 PM
Quote:
Keep it civil guys. The only person who truly knows the answer to this all is Rob
I'll call you Skip Williams

er... Sage Advice.

Ciao!
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Viking2054
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Old March 26th, 2017, 05:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ckorik View Post
Nah - no one cares if we take up an extra 100 or 10000 records for stupid stuff here - because it's not going to process 1 million transactions an hour.
Actually, I think LWD may actually care about this. Not for your local database, but because of what it could do to the cloud. If every single realm sync'ed up to LWD's cloud had an extra 100, 1,000, 10,000 or even a million extra links then that could quickly spiral out of control. Also think about future web based access through the cloud. All those transactions to generate web pages could become rather bothersome.

It would be nice to get what you want, I'm just not sure it is feasible beyond the local machine anyway.
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Bidmaron
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Old March 26th, 2017, 05:31 AM
Ckorik's request is perfectly reasonable, and all the talk about difficulty is just speculation. There will be work involved, as with any of the requests out there. The amount depends upon a lot of implementation details we are not privy to. These extra links are storage size trivial (no actual duplication of content would occur in any reasonable implementation), and the web implementation would not be an issue (again in any reasonable implementation). The web version has a whole lot bigger problems that this, as we've discussed elsewhere.

Might I suggest someone find the request thread for this so we can actually add some weight to the suggestion?

Whether and when LWD gets to it is another matter....

Last edited by Bidmaron; March 26th, 2017 at 05:33 AM.
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