Hero Lab: Incomplete

Dgrm44 · July 18th, 2011, 05:22 PM

I have been using Hero Lab for about a month now and what a disappointment it is turning out to be. It has such potential, but the software team can't meet that potential due to lack of resources.

I hope that someone eventually releases a complete tool for Pathfinder. It is such a shame that Hero Lab is missing so much. If a complete tool ever shows up I will be the first in line to buy it. Hopefully someone will soon.

djc664 · July 18th, 2011, 05:29 PM

Umm.... perhaps it would help if you could articulate what it's missing rather than simply lamenting about an unspecified "so much" amount? What is it that would make this, or anything else, complete?

Dgrm44 · July 18th, 2011, 05:35 PM

1. All data from all Pathfinder products. All monsters, feats, spells etc.

2. Complete tactical control over your combats including auto tracking of effects and total rounds. Automatically adjusting the stats per effect as they are active and later inactive. This includes all buffs/debuffs/spells/conditions/etc/etc.

3. Able to read the data in each of the columns in the main window, too much info gets cut-off. Just seems very cheaply done. The overall UI needs improvement including where the tactical console shows up in relation to the main window. The fonts and overall look could also use a slight update.

Nikmal · July 18th, 2011, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dgrm44

1. All data from all Pathfinder products. All monsters, feats, spells etc.

2. Complete tactical control over your combats including auto tracking of effects and total rounds. Automatically adjusting the stats per effect as they are active and later inactive. This includes all buffs/debuffs/spells/conditions/etc/etc.

3. Able to read the data in each of the columns in the main window, too much info gets cut-off. Just seems very cheaply done. The overall UI needs improvement including where the tactical console shows up in relation to the main window. The fonts and overall look could also use a slight update.

Everything you are complaining about is in the software already. Being picky about where the tactical console shows up is just nit picking too. The GUI is a personal preference as well.. If you do not like it there are more that do. Not everyone is going to be happy over aesthetics and such when it comes down to personal preference.

All conditions are in the game. All spells as far as buffs and such are NOT hard to add yourself if you like. But as far as them being in.. not hard to figure out from there. I do so quite easily.

You do complain about a lot of little things in these forums DGRM44 I wish that you would be truly happy. But the things I am seeing here do not warrant your saying it is incomplete because of the UI for the most part and some other minor issues. Remember not everyone is going to be happy with everything.

Maidhc O Casain · July 19th, 2011, 02:26 AM

First, let me say that I absolutely love HeroLab - it's an awesome tool and I use it all the time. I bought a license for a friend and he's now hooked on it as well. I support HeroLab with my voice (talking it up to my friends, 'posting it up' both here and on ENWorld) and my money (I have almost every Pathfinder dataset, and as soon as my finances recover from my imminent vacation I'll pick up Ultimate Magic and my collection will once more be complete).

However, the OP does have a valid point. It's not complete.

As he said, there are many things that "have not been implemented." This is a bit of a letdown. I paid for it, it should be available; if it's not, it should be made available at the earliest opportunity.
Each installment of the adventure paths includes about 6 new monsters. That's about 140 monsters to date, and that number just keeps growing. (Yes, I know some/most of these are available as .user files, but I'd much rather see them included in the official package).

There are likely other things missing from packages that are already implemented that I've not thought of, but these two popped immediately to mind.

I understand that LW is a very small company and resources (employees) who can do this work are limited. But this is a problem that is only going to get worse unless steps are taken to correct it. Paizo surely isn't going to stop putting out material, which means that LW as it currently stands is always going to be struggling to keep up with the new stuff, which means that finding time to go back and take care of the "this has not been implemented" stuff (and the AP bestiaries, etc) is always going to get pushed to the back burner.

This should change - if I pay for a product, I'd really like to get the whole product.

(Did I get the tone right? I'm not bitter at all; as I said, I love HL and support it whole-heartedly, but I think part of that support should be giving feedback about what I think would make the product better).

Dgrm44 · July 19th, 2011, 07:20 AM

Well said Mowgli. I am not giving this feedback to trash the program, only to alert Lone Wolf that they have a gap and if it isn't fixed it could be a serious issue down the road. Especially if someone comes along and creates something more complete than Herolab.

Dgrm44 · July 19th, 2011, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikmal

Everything you are complaining about is in the software already. Being picky about where the tactical console shows up is just nit picking too. The GUI is a personal preference as well.. If you do not like it there are more that do. Not everyone is going to be happy over aesthetics and such when it comes down to personal preference.

All conditions are in the game. All spells as far as buffs and such are NOT hard to add yourself if you like. But as far as them being in.. not hard to figure out from there. I do so quite easily.

You do complain about a lot of little things in these forums DGRM44 I wish that you would be truly happy. But the things I am seeing here do not warrant your saying it is incomplete because of the UI for the most part and some other minor issues. Remember not everyone is going to be happy with everything.

Nikmal, I am not complaining...I am giving legitimate feedback about a product I paid for. I spent my cash so I earned the right to give my opinion. The product IS incomplete. Adventure Path monsters are not included. The issue with the GUI and Tactical Console are personal preference, but if it was more user friendly and could track what round and turn a buff/debuff ends on then it would "FEEL" completed to me.

Thazar · July 19th, 2011, 09:42 AM

I would like to give my two bits as well. I will say I love Hero Lab and it makes our game MUCH easier. (Especially at higher level.) Many of the above comments are personal preference and DO play into a product review, but they are also subject to opinion and taste. And the adjustments tab is there to allow you to implement the spells you want. Hero Lab is an AID to the game and not a GM. The players and the DM need to know how to use their characters and when to check and un-check the boxes for conditions and spells.

On the other hand many of the points have a small amount of validity. I say small amount because the program includes an editor to allow you to custom tailor the product to how you want it. An RPG like pathfinder is VERY complex. No program will cover all of the material that is out there and you will always need to add or tweak things for your game to some extent. The free add on material such as the AP's are just that... free add-ons so they do not need to be 100% complete. Anything you get is bonus. (But I would REALLY like it if they added the monsters... I would even pay for it.)

If you pay for the extra add-on material it would be nice if that add on included everything at release. But patience is a virtue or so I have been told. And eventually they do get it all included. So while I would say faster is obviously better everyone will have their own opinion on how fast is fast enough. This should go into your decision on if you want to pay the extra money. (I will because I am lazy and they WILL get it done faster them me.)

Finally, I would like to stress as a paying customer. Please consider adding the monsters from the AP's in the future. Either as a free check mark like you do now, or as a supplemental bestiary that you pay for.

Other then the the program is great. It is powerful and does a lot of the heavy lifting for you and allows on the fly adjustments to your character in the middle of combat when you get hit by Dispel Magic, or three different kinds of poison and a curse. Thanks for making it a great product and please see this as encouragement to keep up the good work with some suggestions on how to make the program even better.

quixoticparadigm · July 20th, 2011, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dgrm44

1. All data from all Pathfinder products. All monsters, feats, spells etc.

Well then get your update information from many of the community-inputed databases. Paizo comes out with a deluge of new material every month, and Lone Wolf probably doesn't have the manpower to do it all, even if they get some of the material early. Let's face it this is a very specific market with room for growth, but probably not at the rates you see in other sectors.

Quote:

2. Complete tactical control over your combats including auto tracking of effects and total rounds. Automatically adjusting the stats per effect as they are active and later inactive. This includes all buffs/debuffs/spells/conditions/etc/etc.

You can already do most of these things in the "Adjust / Conditions / Spells" tabs. Yeah, maybe you can't keep your number of rounds, but I'm sure you'll see it implemented sometime in the future.

Quote:

3. Able to read the data in each of the columns in the main window, too much info gets cut-off. Just seems very cheaply done. The overall UI needs improvement including where the tactical console shows up in relation to the main window. The fonts and overall look could also use a slight update.

Print out a PDF of your character sheet and tell it to include everything you want. While Hero Lab can be used in game, it's main focus is to build characters - and it is absolutely wonderful at that. And I see people bring their laptops to tables more and more (myself included), but I'm starting to hop on the bandwagon that you need to have a printed sheet in front of you and you can keep your computer to the side. Hero Lab is a great resource for character creation, but is terribly distracting for GMs and other players if you're sitting there with a laptop in front of you. Not to mention if your GM wants to look over your character sheet, it is a hassle to look if you don't have a PDF / printed copy available.

Lone Wolf puts out amazing products and fill a very big void in the tabletop gaming world. While not everything is put in yet, they work tirelessly to give us most excellent resources to enhance our gaming experiences. If you are disappointed by Hero Lab, then you must not be using the same program that I am.

dartnet · 09:51 AM

Let's put this in perspective sense last Gen Con Lone Wolf has inputted all most all of the material from the following books:

Advanced Player's Guide
Ultimate Magic
Pathfinder Bestiary 2
Adventurer's Armory
Elves of Golarion
Dwarves of Golarion
Gnomes of Golarion
Orcs of Golarion
Halflings of Golarion
Humans of Golarion
Osirion, Land of the Pharaohs
Taldor, Echoes of Glory
Qadira, Gateway to the East
Cheliax, Empire of Devils
Andoran, Spirit of Liberty
Sargava, the Lost Colony
Classic Monsters Revisited
Guide to Darkmoon Vale
Gods & Magic
Into the Darklands
Dark Markets: A Guide to Katapesh
Book of the Damned Volume 1: Princes of Darkness
Cities of Golarion
Classic Horrors Revisited
Guide to the River Kingdoms
Classic Treasures Revisted
Faction Guide
Heart of the Jungle
City of Strangers
Misfit Monsters Redeemed
Book of the Damned Volume 2: Lords of Chaos
Lost Cities of Golarion
the Rival Guide
Undead Revisited
The GM Guide
The Inner Sea World Guide
Inner Sea Primer
and the NPC Guide

Add to that the players material from the adventure paths, and material from the PIZO blog!

All the while adding errata.

And by Gen Con you can add the first batch of stuff from Ultimate Combat.

I don't want to sound like a jerk BUT thats more material than most major game companies put out in 3 to 5 years!

Yes there are holes and they will get filled.

djc664 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 125 July 18th, 2011, 05:29 PM	Umm.... perhaps it would help if you could articulate what it's missing rather than simply lamenting about an unspecified "so much" amount? What is it that would make this, or anything else, complete?
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Dgrm44 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 104 July 19th, 2011, 07:20 AM	Well said Mowgli. I am not giving this feedback to trash the program, only to alert Lone Wolf that they have a gap and if it isn't fixed it could be a serious issue down the road. Especially if someone comes along and creates something more complete than Herolab.
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