Hero Lab: Incomplete

[Kendall-DM]

Originally Posted by Lawful_g

... and now have added mechanics for advancing the HD of monsters (in the next release).

I've been working on this for myself. Everything works fine, but my first stab at skills (transferring the class skills of the creature to the currently advanced HD) has been road blocked a bit, and I've resolved to return to it later when I have other things implemented. Did you get the skills to do this, just out of curiousity?

Also, how have you been implementing your HD, as a monster class or as a regular class? I've been playing around with the idea of templating, but thus far only as a mental exercise. Thanks!

[Paris.Crenshaw]

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

This is a great idea Lawful_g. As this is more complete type of add-on I could also setup a type of auto-download feature like we use for the d20 project.

If nothing else we can make a .hl import file instead so that the .por and .user files would get loaded easily. Though thinking about it a little more we could also probably get these to maybe be added officially which would make it even easier for everyone to get to.

I am already stretched too thin to really help with this but it would be great community thing to do. Made by the community for the community...

I agree, and I'd like to help with such a project. I also think that LW would need to be careful about accepting or automatically loading user created stuff. I'm not sure what their license allows and I also think they'd have to worry about quality control.

For example, one thing I've noticed in adding the Darkmoon Vale adventures is that I sometimes had to make compromises, based on what was possible and what made sense within the PFRPG rules. I'm pretty sure some of that has to do with how old the modules are, but there have still been some strange ones. For example, check out Lucimar, the "worg-bodied" wizard, who is listed as an Undead (augmented humanoid) and actually has a Con score. (Note: This is the PFRPG conversion, but it's a faithful text conversion that shows how much this guy breaks the rules...which HL doesn't do very well.)

At any rate, my point is that those of us who add new races, etc. from the APs should make note of strange situations and how we handled them, so that those who use these creatures can see the changes. The addition of "author notes" to the .user file entries can help immensely. A "readme.txt" file is helpful, too. I know Chava has done that with some of his files.

(For the record, my solution to Lucimar was to make him an actual worg and then add wizard levels, followed by the lich template. The "Faction Guide" refers to him as "Lucimar the Lich-Wolf", so I ran with it. )

[quixoticparadigm]

Originally Posted by Dgrm44

1. All data from all Pathfinder products. All monsters, feats, spells etc.

Well then get your update information from many of the community-inputed databases. Paizo comes out with a deluge of new material every month, and Lone Wolf probably doesn't have the manpower to do it all, even if they get some of the material early. Let's face it this is a very specific market with room for growth, but probably not at the rates you see in other sectors.

2. Complete tactical control over your combats including auto tracking of effects and total rounds. Automatically adjusting the stats per effect as they are active and later inactive. This includes all buffs/debuffs/spells/conditions/etc/etc.

You can already do most of these things in the "Adjust / Conditions / Spells" tabs. Yeah, maybe you can't keep your number of rounds, but I'm sure you'll see it implemented sometime in the future.

3. Able to read the data in each of the columns in the main window, too much info gets cut-off. Just seems very cheaply done. The overall UI needs improvement including where the tactical console shows up in relation to the main window. The fonts and overall look could also use a slight update.

Print out a PDF of your character sheet and tell it to include everything you want. While Hero Lab can be used in game, it's main focus is to build characters - and it is absolutely wonderful at that. And I see people bring their laptops to tables more and more (myself included), but I'm starting to hop on the bandwagon that you need to have a printed sheet in front of you and you can keep your computer to the side. Hero Lab is a great resource for character creation, but is terribly distracting for GMs and other players if you're sitting there with a laptop in front of you. Not to mention if your GM wants to look over your character sheet, it is a hassle to look if you don't have a PDF / printed copy available.

Lone Wolf puts out amazing products and fill a very big void in the tabletop gaming world. While not everything is put in yet, they work tirelessly to give us most excellent resources to enhance our gaming experiences. If you are disappointed by Hero Lab, then you must not be using the same program that I am.

[dartnet]

Let's put this in perspective sense last Gen Con Lone Wolf has inputted all most all of the material from the following books:

Advanced Player's Guide
Ultimate Magic
Pathfinder Bestiary 2
Adventurer's Armory
Elves of Golarion
Dwarves of Golarion
Gnomes of Golarion
Orcs of Golarion
Halflings of Golarion
Humans of Golarion
Osirion, Land of the Pharaohs
Taldor, Echoes of Glory
Qadira, Gateway to the East
Cheliax, Empire of Devils
Andoran, Spirit of Liberty
Sargava, the Lost Colony
Classic Monsters Revisited
Guide to Darkmoon Vale
Gods & Magic
Into the Darklands
Dark Markets: A Guide to Katapesh
Book of the Damned Volume 1: Princes of Darkness
Cities of Golarion
Classic Horrors Revisited
Guide to the River Kingdoms
Classic Treasures Revisted
Faction Guide
Heart of the Jungle
City of Strangers
Misfit Monsters Redeemed
Book of the Damned Volume 2: Lords of Chaos
Lost Cities of Golarion
the Rival Guide
Undead Revisited
The GM Guide
The Inner Sea World Guide
Inner Sea Primer
and the NPC Guide

Add to that the players material from the adventure paths, and material from the PIZO blog!

All the while adding errata.

And by Gen Con you can add the first batch of stuff from Ultimate Combat.

I don't want to sound like a jerk BUT thats more material than most major game companies put out in 3 to 5 years!

Yes there are holes and they will get filled.

[chiefweasel]

I agree. HL is really for charcaters with some GM functions. It seems though that if you add options for changing the characters and things like that, then you take away the playing of the character from the player. The player really should be the one tracking what happens to their character, otherwise, what are they doing?

[Dgrm44]

Originally Posted by chiefweasel

I agree. HL is really for charcaters with some GM functions. It seems though that if you add options for changing the characters and things like that, then you take away the playing of the character from the player. The player really should be the one tracking what happens to their character, otherwise, what are they doing?

I could not DISAGREE MORE with this sentiment. Even if this were true, if HL would track everything for you that doesnt mean everyone has to use that feature, but those of us that WOULD USE IT it would be there for us. I also think that MOST ALL GMs would use this feature if it was implemented correctly.

[Dwayne]

I know there have been many books they have put into Herolab and that is great but they did not do it for free. They were paid to do it. I/we paid them for their efforts. I just want the long unfinished or not implemented feats, etc. to be finished. Every new book put into Herolab just leaves more unfinished work. There are things from the core rulebook that are not finished. I LOVE Herolab and think they are doing a great job but unfinished work needs to get finished.

[Kendall-DM]

My take on things like this is as follows. There are more than a few people out there that are proficient programmers (myself included) that would be willing to get unfinished or unimplemented parts of HL working as intended. And do it for free. We all have a vested interest in the product doing well, and to tell the truth, I had long considered using a XML database for my game, but I never got around to it. HL is the perfect fit of flexibility and expansiveness simply because XML is just that. However, too many things happen behind the scenes that are not working correctly, and they are difficult, if not impossible, to implement workarounds for until an appropriate patch comes out. I would be more than willing to do directed coding for free, just to get 3.5 rules up to date and more inclusive to the process. The more I learn about this program the more I like it, BUT the more I learn the more poorly written pieces of the program I come across. I understand this probably started as a project among a tight group of people (or a person singularly), and thus there is alot of legacy code that is badly implemented or not fully implemented at all. I know that I, as well as others, would be more than happy to improve the product and make it into the product the consumer would like to see.

By the way, what is LW's take on third party software working with HL? I'm really thinking about implementing a tactical console of my own that just references the HL files complete with trackers and spell/special ability popups, not to mention better weapon attack listings. I don't want to embark on such a product without knowing where I stand though.

[Lawful_g]

Originally Posted by Kendall-DM

I've been working on this for myself. Everything works fine, but my first stab at skills (transferring the class skills of the creature to the currently advanced HD) has been road blocked a bit, and I've resolved to return to it later when I have other things implemented. Did you get the skills to do this, just out of curiousity?

Also, how have you been implementing your HD, as a monster class or as a regular class? I've been playing around with the idea of templating, but thus far only as a mental exercise. Thanks!

I add the extra skill points to the racial skill column so I don't have to transfer the known skills at all.

[Kendall-DM]

Originally Posted by Lawful_g

I add the extra skill points to the racial skill column so I don't have to transfer the known skills at all.

That's pretty brilliant. However, when I work on this again in the near future, I will still try to transfer the class skills to the new HD. A few ideas have already occured to me, that I'm pretty sure will work.