Inventory Management

[yobtar702]

Is there a way where you can put what models you own and then it woill only let you build lists based on what you own?

[Colen]

Army Builder does not currently include inventory support, although we now support "Model List Output" that outputs the list of models that you use in an army. Here's an explanation we recently posted on another site:

The new model list feature can be used to manage inventory, albeit without the flexibility that some users are going to want. There are some major issues with adding full-blown "inventory management".

For the hardcore player, we would need to track everything at the SKU level. Each individual model would need to be tracked. Then we would have to map each model to the specifically equipped units that it could be fielded within. This is a detail that the data file authors would need to adjudicate and maintain, which would add a *lot* of work to their plate.

More than likely, the classifications made by authors would become a source of disagreement due to the subjective nature of how some models can be classified in some games (e.g. 40K). That would entail that we provide a complex interface that allows users to override the default classifications with their own preferences. At that point, the simplicity of using AB disappears.

Then there is the question of how to handle conversions, for which there are no SKUs. However, the player is absolutely going to want to track those models within his inventory.

Now look at the casual players. For the casual player, lots of models can readily fill in for other models. While they generally strive to be WYSIWYG, there is a fair amount of "fudging" that goes on. And that's perfectly reasonable for their play needs.

The complexity of having something that works appropriately for all these different player needs is staggering. Not only would it be lots of work to implement, it would also make the product very complex to *use*. At that point, inventory management would only be truly useful to a very small subset of our users. Until we can figure out a way to handle all of the above competing requirements with a simple interface that makes it readily accessible to that vast majority of our users, a "complete" inventory mechanism just isn't practical. So we're still working out how best to solve this issue.

[Darq]

I have to agree with the OP - Inventory management would be a huge improvement to the product. Though you cite the use of Army Builder by casual players, I can't believe they are more of your market then the guys (and girls) with hundreds of minis. Even for them - what is the use of being presented with hundreds of choices you can't use since you only have the starter set? Of course the inventory shouldn't be REQUIRED to use as a filter.

Are you tracking attributes at the Miniature level (SKU?) such as Movement, MAT and RAT? If so why not add two attributes - Total_Inventory and Current_Invnetory. The interface is obviously already aware of how many miniatures are in a unit, so wouldn't it just be a matter of comparing the cost in qty of minis with the Current_Inventory and popping a dialog if there aren't enough? You could decrement the Current_Inventory appropriatly when you add the unit to the treeview.

Add an inventory management screen that could be as simple as a grid the user can apply filters to with the miniature name, Total_Inventory column and an update button.

I am assuming you are interacting with the db during app use though - if you front load it then you could add up the currently assigned mini's from the treeview - maybe a hidden column there.

As a stop gap, what about an Available flag at the unit level that the user can set for units they can field, and filter on. Just got the app, and I was looking for how to manage inventory which got me here, so if that flag is already there ignore this bit

Just some thoughts - This would be a huge benefit to me and I would guess many other users.

Thanks!

[Colen]

We're thinking of "casual players" in a different way than you. Here's an example:

Hardcore Harry is a space marine player. He has 100 space marines, which are exactly painted and armed to form a 100%-accurate Ultramarines Fourth Company. To Harry, everything has to be exactly correct for him to use it in game - all his squads have to be exactly 10 guys, they have to be armed with exactly the weapons the models have, and even their shoulder pads are painted to indicate which squad number they're in. For Harry, an inventory manager must restrict him to exactly the models that he has - no deviation is permitted (because that would be heretical and the Inquisition would throw him in jail).

Harry plays with Casual Calvin. Calvin also has 100 space marines. None of them are painted, and most of them don't even have any arms. Calvin put arms on about 20 of them, and treats those as the guys with heavy / special weapons, but they can be used as anything - veterans, tactical marines, devastators, anything. Once he used a single space marine model with a red-painted helmet as a Dreadnought, and an unpainted Rhino as a Land Raider. For Calvin, an inventory manager needs to make sure he doesn't take more models than he has, and no more than 20 guys with heavy or special weapons.

Obviously these are extremes, but both these types of players exist, as well as a whole spectrum in between. If we want to include useful inventory management in Army Builder, it has to satisfy both of these players - otherwise we'll be adding a feature that will only ever be used by a small fraction of AB's userbase. If we're going to spend a lot of time adding inventory management, we want to to it right, so that everyone can take advantage of it.

[Darq]

I certainly agree you want to do it right, but even in the example you gave Casual Calvin is still limited by the number of armless space marines he has - unless he doesn't care about the limitations (when we first started, we used pennies) in which case he wouldn't need to use it at all.

Thank you for your prompt response, are you in fact thinking about inventory management?

I still respectfully disagree with several of the points expressed in the copied explanation: First that only a "very small subset" of your users would find it useful - If you don't have a lot of minis, you don't need a tool to generate your army list.

Second that the interface need be complicated or cumbersome - as i suggested a grid with the mini name and the number you have.

As to how complicated it would be to implement - I certainly am not in a position to comment on that, but I do note your systems already tracks and differentiates the type of miniature being allocated (I select an SM squad It tells me that is a Seargant and 4 troops). I can also certainly appreciate the added layer of complexity if you included what equipment the miniature had on it.

Thanks for your time!

Please note - I do appreciate and am using your product! I am a Business Analyst by profession and I can't help making suggestions to improve the product though

[gilvagor]

I would really love to see inventory put in. I understand the complications that come with such a task but you have to look at the game system as well.

40k doesn't really need inventory management. It's pretty much cookie cutter squads. Very little in the way of customization in your squads nor do you many models in said squad.

If you look at Fantasy it's a completely different beast. You have units of 10, 20, even 30 models. Weapon options are different, you have command models as well.

Inventory management would be amazing for Fantasy, Mordheim, Necromunda but less so for 40k. As for other supported games I'm not exactly sure of as I don't play them.

Gil,

[rob]

We've been talking about some ideas on how best to handle inventory management in a generic manner that will work well across all game systems. As Gilvagor pointed out, the needs of different types of games vary widely, and anything we develop has to support all of them appropriately. That's a lot more difficult to accomplish.

We've got one approach that looks quite promising. However, it's going to be a *lot* of work to implement properly, and it's not even certain it will work - we need to think through various aspects of it in more depth. So it's not something that we'll be able to get done for the V3.3 release that is targeted for late Summer or early Fall. We're going to keep fleshing out the idea further, though, and if the approach is sound for a variety of games, we'll be able to include in an update next year.

[gilvagor]

Awesome to hear Rob. I know I would really love to see inventory added to AB. Since I play Warhammer Fantasy exclusively it would diffidently help me out.

[Darq]

Thanks Rob,
appreciate the update