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Globetrotter
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Old April 29th, 2014, 05:25 PM
Adding mythic ranks to monsters is official.

I supposed I am missing your point again.
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RavenX
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Old April 29th, 2014, 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
Adding mythic ranks to monsters is official.
It is. That's the reason I'm supporting getting it added outside the editor. I don't agree with this being editor only as it creates hours of work to add mythic ranks to uncopiable races as you have to rebuild them completely.



As far as coding is concerned, I don't think that Paizo gives explicit directions on how to implement things (nor does catalyst game labs). I think it is up to the software developer how to best implement something. Look at the bestiary monster creator in depth, you'll see you can build just about any monster you want, even recreating 3.5 creatures, without using the editor. I don't think it's too much to add similar functionality for mythic monsters that augments the builder already present.

RavenX

Please do not PM me to inquire about datafiles I coded "for personal use" such as Exalted, World of Darkness, AD&D, or Warhammer 40K Roleplaying. I appreciate your interest, but I do not own the Intellectual Property rights to these game systems. Nor do I have permission from any of the Publishers to distribute the data files. As such, I cannot distribute the work I have done with community on these files. They are "for personal use" only. Thank you.

I am far too busy these days to answer emails. If you message me here there is no guarantee I will get back to you at all.
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Silveras
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Old April 29th, 2014, 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
Adding mythic ranks to monsters is official.

I supposed I am missing your point again.
No, I stand corrected. Resume your normal discussion with my apologies for the side-track.
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Aaron
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Old April 29th, 2014, 11:47 PM
I don't mean any offense, but I honestly don't see what is so scary about the editor. Sure, there is a lot to it, but once you are on the tab to make the thing you want, each line has a helpful little ? icon next to it which explains what to use that button or field for. You can copy and look at existing things, there is a wealth of help here on the forums. Is there something we could do to make the editor less intimidating?

I'll admit that even non-mythic monster races are pretty fiddly to make in the editor, as in you have to bootstrap a ton of different things and assign tags, field values, and conditions to each of those bootstraps. Adding one more system on top of that just makes things more fiddly.

When designing the way mythic monsters worked, I had initially intended something a bit more customizable than what is currently available. Similar to the way "Customize?" removes default feat and skill choices so that the DM can re-assign them, I had plans to make that button (or another like it) remove the Mythic Racial Abilities/Path abilities. I think I was also going to make the Mythic rank an incrementer when you customized the monster as well. That'd allow a user to make a single "Base" mythic monster and then let others customize it as needed. I honestly don't think I considered integrating it into Mathias' monster creator system.

Unfortunately, the constraints of development and user expectation led to the deferral of that plan. It's on a far back burner at the moment. I'd still like to circle back to that sort of thing if I could find the time.

Anyhoo, that's my two cents.

Last edited by Aaron; May 2nd, 2014 at 01:51 PM. Reason: More politic language
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Globetrotter
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 11:22 AM
If course you don't have problems with the editor, you use it all the time.

I do not. I do not understand it and I'm guessing a lot of other people also do not.
It has need stated that people with programming background have trouble. I have none.

Bootstrap... I have no idea what that means. Search the boards here for all the people that cannot do things and the blocks of complicated text that follow.

If it was easy, like you suggestion, here would be a lot fewer questions.

My 2 cents
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mirtos
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 11:49 AM
I have to agree, I'm sorry Aaron.

I'm a software engineer, and it took me a while to get comfortable with the nuances of the editor. now granted, the Pathfinder one is MUCH nicer than the D20 one (I use both), but its still complicated.

Now dont get me wrong, I LOVE the power of the editor, and I dont see a way to make it any more user friendly with everything it can do, but witht he power it gives there are a lot of confusing things.

The tutorials are useful, but I've been looking for a long time with a document that has layed out all the tags and variables. A lot of the time its guess work, or copying existing items, feats, etc. Its just not very well documented.

for someone that doesnt come with a programming or scripting background, it might be very daunting.
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mirtos
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 12:04 PM
As for a suggestion, I imagine a "lite" editor, might be useful to some people. just the ability to assign certain stats to monsters via checksboxes, items, etc. Preexisting effects, not custom effects.

i dont know if its worth the programming time to do it, but that might make the editor seem less daunting to the less power user.
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RavenX
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 12:30 PM
Aaron,

Step outside your comfort zone as a programmer and take a few moments to build something in hero lab without the editor. Now think about the learning curve involved in point and click in the user interface, most of that people learned already. Nothing new there, if you can play solitare on your PC, you can build a character in hero lab.

Now think about the learning curve on the editor. If you aren't someone that adds custom content on a regular basis, there is a lot of material to learn. Mathias has helped me for many years on learning the editor through the forums. Have you seen my post count? Probably half that number is from questions asked. If someone just wants to make mythic monsters out of existing ones it's a lot of work and discouraging to a user that isn't used to it because there's a learning curve.

RavenX

Please do not PM me to inquire about datafiles I coded "for personal use" such as Exalted, World of Darkness, AD&D, or Warhammer 40K Roleplaying. I appreciate your interest, but I do not own the Intellectual Property rights to these game systems. Nor do I have permission from any of the Publishers to distribute the data files. As such, I cannot distribute the work I have done with community on these files. They are "for personal use" only. Thank you.

I am far too busy these days to answer emails. If you message me here there is no guarantee I will get back to you at all.
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Aaron
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 01:53 PM
The editor is as complex as it needs to be to handle the game system it works in. If there are suggestions on how to make things clearer or easier to use, I'd be happy to listen to them, but creating a whole new "lite" version of the editor simply isn't feasible.
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Aaron
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Old May 2nd, 2014, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirtos View Post
I have to agree, I'm sorry Aaron.

I'm a software engineer, and it took me a while to get comfortable with the nuances of the editor. now granted, the Pathfinder one is MUCH nicer than the D20 one (I use both), but its still complicated.

Now dont get me wrong, I LOVE the power of the editor, and I dont see a way to make it any more user friendly with everything it can do, but witht he power it gives there are a lot of confusing things.

The tutorials are useful, but I've been looking for a long time with a document that has layed out all the tags and variables. A lot of the time its guess work, or copying existing items, feats, etc. Its just not very well documented.

for someone that doesnt come with a programming or scripting background, it might be very daunting.
I'd just like to offer the counterpoint that I am not a software engineer. My training is in the biological sciences. Variation is a thing, some folks will be daunted and others will not.

The documentation suggestion is a good one, I agree.

Protip: I believe users can already access all the tags defined in the core program by looking into the tags.1st file. Most of them have notes alongside them which explain their function, though the organization is a bit messy.
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