Where do I start?

[wgdevanna]

Originally Posted by Madmaxneo

Ok, I am confused.

1. How do I add Stats for a new game system character sheet?
2. How do I add all the other pertinent fields like skills and their input fields?

Please Help!
Bruce

Madmaxneo:
There is a lot to learn...and as a non-coder, I find the structure to be somewhat hard to get my head around. I have spent a couple (or more) of weeks going thru the Unofficial Authoring Guide with the Savage Worlds walkthru. Rolemaster (HARP) is not much like a d20 game, but I think it's doable.
I have done a little bit thus far:
http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=50376

I haven't got the point-buy system worked out yet. I think it derives from the "Resources" component...but I haven't had much time to get thru it. I don't know HARP, but I would guess it's a lot like RMSS. I would be happy to share with you what I have done. Once the structure is established, then the content should be pretty easy to add.

Gregg

[Madmaxneo]

I'm really surprised there isn't a wiki on adding a new game using the authoring kit. Or at least something about where to find the different aspects of each game like stats and what is affected by those stats (i.e. if I change the stats what else I need to change?). But there is nothing. At this point I am wondering if purchasing Hero Lab was a waste of money as I only purchased it to add the primary game I play.

[AndrewD2]

The idea of the Savage Worlds walkthrough in the Wiki is so you go through that and learn how the authoring kit works and then take that knowledge and apply it to your system.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by AndrewD2

The idea of the Savage Worlds walkthrough in the Wiki is so you go through that and learn how the authoring kit works and then take that knowledge and apply it to your system.

Correct. Madmaxneo you are being given a tool that can build ANY game system. The wiki teaches you how all these different tools, frame work, components work. Then you use that knowledge to build your game system.

Because every game system is different you have to learn how the tool functions. Then apply its use to building your game. So in other words your step one is to learn how to program using the HL scripting language. What tags, groups, bootstraps, are and how to use write in XML.

You want to start at the step 99 (Inputting the game) without first working through step 1 through 98 (Building the foundation to support your game).

[rob]

Here's an analogy that is hopefully helpful...

You are building a house from scratch. In order to build an entire house, you need to first learn the basics of:

* Engineering - for any grading, earthquake safety, drainage, etc.

* Architecture - for reading the drawings of the architect that designed the house for you and potentially making any adjustments along the way when the inevitable surprises arise

* Politics - for navigating the process of securing all the necessary permits and then getting everything reviewed and approved along the way

* Plumbing - I assume you want working baths and toilets

* Electrical - I also assume you want there to be power in your new house

* Cement - for pouring the foundation properly (optional)

* Carpentry - for framing the house and building out all the interior spaces

* Mud/Drywall - for giving the walls and ceiling a nice finish

* Tile - for flooring in assorted rooms

* Painting - for a pleasing environment to live in

* Glass - I assume you want windows

* Interior Design - for all the nice finishing touches to make the house a joy to live in

I'm sure I've overlooked multiple important details above, but this list should serve nicely as an example. Creating data files for a new game system in Hero Lab is JUST like building a house. There are numerous pieces of the overall puzzle that need to be understood and that all interact with each other. For example, you need to anticipate all your plumbing and electrical needs before you start pouring concrete, building the foundation, or framing up the house - if you don't you're going to have problems. All these different aspects of the process all come together in unique ways that depend entirely upon the nature of the house. Are you building a sprawling ranch house? Or a multi-story home? Is it built on a hill?

Every house is different, just like every game system is different. The one thing that's constant is that you need to understand all of the core principles and tools needed to build your house. The same is true for games in Hero Lab. For some houses, certain skills and tools are less important than for other types of houses. However, many of the core skills are constant across all of them. They merely get used in a different ways. That's exactly how Hero Lab works.

The wiki outlines the various tools and mechanics that you'll need to build your game system. The wiki also provides a walk-through of creating a game system that has many of the elements shared by most game systems. The expectation is that you'll then take the knowledge from that walk-through and apply it to your own game system. It's just like apprenticing on the construction of a house to see how it's done before you build your own.

The impression that some of us are getting is that you want to jump in at the "interior design" stage. But you haven't yet built the foundation or framed the house, so that's simply not possible yet. As has been stated by others, it's an onerous task to create Hero Lab data files for a game system. It's also been very rewarding for those who have stuck through the process to create something of use for themselves. It's going to take many weeks of work to fully support a game system like HARP, and you have to start with the foundation to get anywhere.

Hopefully, this analogy makes sense and is helpful. If you decide that you don't want to invest that much effort, it's wholly understandable and you can definitely ask for your money back. If you decide to dive in fully, please start at the beginning and the folks here on the forum (including the developers) will be quite helpful. You just need to start at the beginning instead of 3/4ths the way through. That's why you're getting so frustrated and nobody is able to actually help you.

[CubGeek]

Originally Posted by rob

Here's an analogy that is hopefully helpful...

This is a great analogy. And, a lot of it is very accurate. There's so much involved that it can take a long time to work your way up through the steps until you're ready to read the blueprints.

However, working through the wiki and then having the wiki be unfinished is like having a half-finished blueprint from the architect. You'll get the structure framed in, you'll get the basic utilities (plumbing, electrical, gas, etc), and you can get the drywall on.

But without the Techniques and Solutions section, we may not be able to find how to solve a particularly troublesome zoning issue or why the doors won't hang plumb or why the windows are drafty.

Without the Skinning the Interface section, the interior decorators can't make the house look beautiful, so we're stuck with plain drywall, no curtains over those drafty windows, and no holiday wreath on the crooked front door.

And, without the User Tips and Suggestions section... well, there's no home-owners' association to help up figure out where the fence can be placed so our dogs don't poop on the neighbor's lawn, as well as which chimney sweep in town is the best.

There have been no major revisions or additions to the Wiki in over four to five YEARS.... Has there been new revisions and functionality added to Hero Lab in that same time? I suspect so.

I'm having fun tinkering with the authoring kit, and I haven't broken anything (yet!!! ), but it would be nice to have a fully-functional space-stat--- sorry, wiki.

[BoomerET]

Just wait, you'll break it soon enough CubGeek. <grin>

All, I'm emailing back and forth w/ Madmaxneo, hoping getting him settled in.

Maybe it's time to start back up on my video series.


BoomerET

[rob]

@CubGeek: You're absolutely correct that adding those missing sections would be extremely helpful. Same with updating the entire wiki to reflect the various extensions that have been added to Hero Lab over the past few years. The challenge we face is time. Doing all that would require *MONTHS* of work - literally, that's not an exaggeration. That's time focused on supporting a small number of users and that's not spent adding new features or working on data files that will support thousands of users. So it's a no-win situation for us, and we've opted to tackle questions on the forums about those areas when data file creators encounter issues that aren't covered in the wiki. Is that a "good" solution? Definitely not. But it's the best we've managed that juggles the two competing demands for our time.

[rob]

Originally Posted by BoomerET

All, I'm emailing back and forth w/ Madmaxneo, hoping getting him settled in.

Maybe it's time to start back up on my video series.

Thanks!!!!

[RavenX]

Using the Authoring Kit is not something that is going to be intuitive. You need to know the basics of XML syntax before prying open the skeleton kit and modifying things.

Then you have to learn from the HLKitWiki how things are set up. One thing I found out pretty fast tinkering with code under the hood is that order is very important in the components in terms of how things are defined. Field definitions come first, then tags, then eval scripts, etc. You have to learn the order in which things go so you don't spend hours scratching your head in frustration.

Once you got that down, you can start thinking about what your game system needs. My AD&D 2e files were not an easy transformation from the basic authoring kit. Rob has it correct, it is like building a house. Though I have to say, house construction is a little easier by comparison. As long as you don't add too much water to your cement, you'll be fine putting in the foundation.

Changing the skeleton files isn't so simple. You really have to know how things work and put in hours of work to get things working correctly. It's a frustrating process at times.