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MaxSupernova
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 07:42 AM
Does the RealmWorks team browse reddit (in their copious amounts of free time...) ?

I try to mention RealmWorks as much as I can there when people ask about organizing campaigns.

I also try to look out for mentions of it, and there was this comment in a thread this morning:

Quote:
Realm works looks fairly promising as a campaign map and wiki. Shame it's so goddamn expensive.
I thought you might want to see what the table talk is about the product. Are you interested in hearing about mentions of RW in gamers communities? Are you seeing them already? Should we be posting them? Emailing them to you?

Last edited by MaxSupernova; October 23rd, 2014 at 08:24 AM.
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liz
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 08:54 AM
Hey Max, thanks for asking! Yes, I try to keep tabs on what is being discussed in the many other communities. However, a variety of factors, determines whether we jump in to the discussion or just watch from the outskirts.

If anyone sees any of our products being discussed somewhere, and thinks "hey, someone at Lone Wolf should see this", feel free to shoot me a PM. And, of course, if you see a post somewhere else about Realm Works (or another product), and want to chime in with your two cents, hearing from users is often more helpful to other gamers than hearing from the company.

Let me know if you have any other questions, or feel free to PM me.
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Pollution
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Old October 24th, 2014, 04:10 AM
I was reading that Thread yesterday myself, and have to say that a lot of the "actual" tech innovations they want to see on the table are already accomplished by either RW or HL, or a combination of the two.

A lot of the ideas that weren't feasible were things like holographic battlemaps and whatnot.

THOUGH..... I'm currently looking for a super cheap projector that I can ceiling mount (or do a mirror reflection) to hit my tabletop and use the smartmaps and images as a battlemap. Sizing the map to the right zoom level is the only real issue with that (doing it for every map).

Currently, I use my laptop with RW synced to my workstation where I input everything. I have 4 TVs in the house, 3 of which are VERY movable. So for game, my GM screen is a 46" Flatscreen LED TV with RW as the monitor. I LOVE it. My players LOVE it!

They went farther than I was ready for one night, and entered an area I wasn't ready for yet (I assumed they'd do more before going into this area, silly me). When I started drawing the room layouts out on the battlemat, they were all like, "HEY! Where's our revealable map on the screen? Where's the monster pictures? Where's the Treasure Listing for what we found?"

They were genuinely disappointed.

As to the major complaint I see from other gamers where HL and RW is concerned (the cost), I usually respond with, "Yeah, I paid $60 for RW. And I've used it in games for about 40 hours so far. I'll continue using it for the next XXX years. The cost will come to about $0.01 or less an hour in the end. If you don't have $60 for Realm Works, don't buy the new Xbox game, or don't go to your bi-weekly trip to play a LARP in Chicago ONCE."

As far as HL goes...Okay, I'm about $200 in at this point I think.... But it's SOOOOO DAMNED convenient and it works well. Could you guys charge less? maybe, but I doubt that you'd be able to have a staff if you did.

I feel like your pricing model is fair at this point. I've put in my own version of Gun H(3)aven 3 into HL for SR 4. I'm a Technical Writer by trade. I do that kind of stuff all the time. It took a few hours total to get the whole book in. And that's not doing it in any difficult manner, that's copying a like-type weapon and making the adjustments. So my own value on what the development for that user mod took was about $100 (by my current pay rate per hour). And you're selling it for what? $5.00? $10.00? And, unless I'm mistaken, it's coming with other products as well? Or as part of a package?

People need to get over the cost of LW products. It's cheap compared to other solutions, and less time intensive as a result of use. People have no issues ploping down $20 for a sourcebook they'll never use (I'm looking at my copy of WW's Blood Dimmed Tides as I type this) but they complain about a software package that makes running and playing games easier for EVERY system that costs less than a core book? Or the same price as one?

Please.

The biggest issue I have with LW and RW/HL at this moment is the release schedule. I want my Player's edition. I want the Marketplace. Give it to me! I want to hand you money! Giff moar products!

(seriously though, as an IT guy, I'm surprised that you guys can keep up as it it. good job guys)
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Exmortis
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Old October 24th, 2014, 04:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollution View Post
As to the major complaint I see from other gamers where HL and RW is concerned (the cost), I usually respond with, "Yeah, I paid $60 for RW. And I've used it in games for about 40 hours so far. I'll continue using it for the next XXX years. The cost will come to about $0.01 or less an hour in the end. If you don't have $60 for Realm Works, don't buy the new Xbox game, or don't go to your bi-weekly trip to play a LARP in Chicago ONCE."

As far as HL goes...Okay, I'm about $200 in at this point I think.... But it's SOOOOO DAMNED convenient and it works well. Could you guys charge less? maybe, but I doubt that you'd be able to have a staff if you did.

I feel like your pricing model is fair at this point. I've put in my own version of Gun H(3)aven 3 into HL for SR 4. I'm a Technical Writer by trade. I do that kind of stuff all the time. It took a few hours total to get the whole book in. And that's not doing it in any difficult manner, that's copying a like-type weapon and making the adjustments. So my own value on what the development for that user mod took was about $100 (by my current pay rate per hour). And you're selling it for what? $5.00? $10.00? And, unless I'm mistaken, it's coming with other products as well? Or as part of a package?

People need to get over the cost of LW products. It's cheap compared to other solutions, and less time intensive as a result of use. People have no issues ploping down $20 for a sourcebook they'll never use (I'm looking at my copy of WW's Blood Dimmed Tides as I type this) but they complain about a software package that makes running and playing games easier for EVERY system that costs less than a core book? Or the same price as one?
I see this as well, was even a issue and still is for one member of my group moving to HL. The cost. Yet he owns every book? He gets rather annoyed when I point out buying HL is cheaper than the books, and its way more useful.

The cost of RW though is alot more difficult to quanitfy, for me, a person building a new campaign within a new game world under my own unique IP? RW is cheap, dirt cheap. It replaces reems of printed paper, binders and binders of info, and better yet? supports me using HL for encounters.

The problem with most people is they have trouble with value vs $$ cost, RW is not cheap if you pay 60 bucks and have to manually put in every module by hand, do achieve what you already have in booklet form. However thats not its intended market atm, RW market for now is me, and everyone like me who is building custom campaigns, even in preset worlds like FR. For me the value is easily reconsciled.

HeroLab seems expensive to any gamer who has already purchased every book, or most books. This I do understand, I have two books shelves and about 6 boxes dedicated to RPG books and accessories ranging from D&D Basic to 3.5 and Pathfinder. It is expensive to own all the books and then buy all the HL add-ons. For new players I have been advising they buy HL and the PDF from Paizo, thats the best of both worlds, and over time cheaper than all the books in real print.

HeroLab's value is much easier to show off and explain then RW to average gamer, one look at how great your char sheet is, how cool it looks after mounts, hirelings, henchmen, or pets, and everyone wants it. 6 of our 7 man group went from The Only Sheet to HeroLab within 4 months of our first player buying it. Best feature of HL? you can buy what you need, leaving what you do not need for another time. I cannot stress how great being able to buy what you need as a player for HL is, this allows you to "stretch" the cost over a great deal of time. I stretched mine over many pay cheques, to now I own it all and buy the new releases as they come. Bieng able to do this was instrumental in my buying into it, I am not Donald trump.

HeroLab and Realm Works are not by any means over priced, when you consider the value these products bring to their perspective markets, actually they are cheap really in the logn run. Once the market place opens up and we hopefuly begin to see things like Kingmaker, or RoTRL adventure series in RW format? I think its market place will expand greatly, I would love to see Paizo add this as a buyable add on to every module and series they release.

Last edited by Exmortis; October 24th, 2014 at 04:53 AM.
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Farling
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Old October 24th, 2014, 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exmortis View Post
The problem with most people is they have trouble with value vs $$ cost, RW is not cheap if you pay 60 bucks and have to manually put in every module by hand, do achieve what you already have in booklet form.
The "already have in booklet form" is so wrong :-)

You have all the text from the booklet form, but it has been re-arranged, dissected, and several books merged together to make the whole more useful.
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liz
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Old October 24th, 2014, 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exmortis View Post
The problem with most people is they have trouble with value vs $$ cost, RW is not cheap if you pay 60 bucks and have to manually put in every module by hand, do achieve what you already have in booklet form. However thats not its intended market atm, RW market for now is me, and everyone like me who is building custom campaigns, even in preset worlds like FR. For me the value is easily reconsciled.
Exmortis, I think you're spot on with your assessment. For world builders, the consistent feedback we've been receiving is that they saw the value proposition of Realm Works and their experience as a user/customer has confirmed that value.

For non-worldbuilding GMs, they're going to be finding the most value out of the Content Market. My dad (and first GM) is one of those GMs. He's absolutely thrilled over the prospect of the Content Market, because he doesn't have time to build elaborate worlds anymore. I know there are other GMs out there like him. Heck, I can't wait for the ability to browse through other GM's creations (ummm Anna B. Meyer's maps, anyone?).

Our hope is that as we cater to more markets, and as more people hear about Realm Works, more and more GMs will see see the value of Realm Works in their game and make the same cost vs. benefits decisions you all mentioned in your posts.
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AEIOU
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Old October 24th, 2014, 08:29 AM
Cost is relative. If you run off-the-shelf modules and that is it, then it costs way too much IMNSHO. If you run adventure paths, create your own settings, create side adventures, base your adventures in a world that evolves or want to create consistency so your players know what to expect, then it's priceless, again IMNSHO.

I've been entering material from Frog God Games. Up until recently, they've been publishing campaign setting agnostic for their rather large library of adventures and setting materials. They include very little historical timeline or historical background to draw from -- amazing breadth but lacking in depth. However, each of those adventures and setting documents is tied together by threads and mentions and NPCs that know NPCs, gods, common locations, artifacts lost and found and the impacts of the last great war that has left its imprint upon everything. In print, those connections are lost -- each book is an island; complete unto itself, but still an island. In RW, that same material transforms, adventures intertwine and locations start to connect seamlessly. Intrigues turn into conspiracies; evil plots stretch across a continent and beyond. Next spring FGG will start releasing campaign setting materials with history and maps and and and....they are adding depth to their existing breadth.

Golarion, Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk are very mature, possess dragon hoard sized treasure troves of depth and breadth, and are supported by larger companies. Once material starts to flow for any of these settings.... The future is very bright indeed.

I enter FGG's material now because I don't expect them to publish to RW in the near future. And it gives me practice learning the ins and outs of RW so I can better manipulate the data that gets published eventually.

I am waiting on Paizo's material because it will be mind-blowing what becomes possible for gamers. This is their chance to deal a telling blow to Hasbro.

Last edited by AEIOU; October 24th, 2014 at 08:30 AM. Reason: Liz snuck in while I was typing.... Ninja'd....
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Dr_Automaton
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Old October 24th, 2014, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEIOU View Post
I enter FGG's material now because I don't expect them to publish to RW in the near future. And it gives me practice learning the ins and outs of RW so I can better manipulate the data that gets published eventually.
Razor Coast was one of the RW stretch goals. Isn't that FGG?
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AEIOU
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Old October 24th, 2014, 12:00 PM
@Dr Automaton: Yes, but Razor Coast is an odd one that doesn't feel like it fits neatly into the rest of their work. FGG is a small shop so I'm sure they need to pick and choose projects carefully. I hope RC is a good guinea pig for them that leaves us all asking for more of their work.

And one more quick item back on topic. Gaming is a cheap HOBBY as far as hobbies go. Yes, hundreds of dollars in books and software and maybe even conventions.... But when I compare it to skiing or cycling or soccer or band or cable television or even just buying novels, it's pretty dang inexpensive. Additionally, time I invest into my hobby doesn't have a dollar amount attached as it's fun and relaxing. Your mileage may vary....
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