Cyberlimb armor?

[Stoffern]

I was just checking how Hero Lab is dealing with cyberlimb armor enhancements, since it's currently a hot topic for my Shadowrun group. After creating a quick test character I can see that cyberlimb armor doesn't seem to add to the total armor value of the character at all.
Anyone have any insight here? Anything obvious I'm missing?

- Stoffern

[Mathias]

Cyberlimb armor is only included if your opponent makes a called shot to hit the cyberlimb.

[Stoffern]

Okay, so is that a Lone Wolf judgement call or something that is clarified by Catalyst somewhere?

[Mathias]

There's nothing in the Core Rulebook that suggests cyberlimb armor does apply to non-called damage tests.

[Stoffern]

Okay then. Thanks for the quick replies!

[ahglock]

I'm kind of boggled by that rational. There is nothing to suggest in the rules that any armor is location specific. Helmets, shin guards, vests etc. all just add to you armor they don't provide a benefit only when someone tries to shoot you in the location. What about a cyber torso, do they need to make a called shot to the chest for the armor to kick in? The only real question about armor is does it stack or not. Armor vest, long coat no they don't stack. Form fitting and long coat does though, since form fitting like the secure line has a special rule that allows them to stack.

Generally if something is an exception to the rules they specify it as so, so if it required a called shot I think it would be specifically spelled out. In fact the line on page 344 of SR4A that says it is cumulative with all other worn armor would indicate otherwise in my mind. It does not say cumulative with worn armor that covers the same location in the case of a called shot, it is just cumulative. It does not specify if it is cumulative with itself, but I think that is a fairly safe assumption.

[Colen]

Helmets, for example, specifically say they don't count as separate pieces of armor:

Originally Posted by SR4A, p327

Helmets and shields do not count as separate pieces of armor; instead, they modify the rating of worn armor by their rating (Armor and Encumbrance, p. 161).

I'm unaware of any similar statement made about Cyberlimb armor - is there such in the core rulebook or Augmentation?

[ahglock]

Originally Posted by Colen

Helmets, for example, specifically say they don't count as separate pieces of armor:



I'm unaware of any similar statement made about Cyberlimb armor - is there such in the core rulebook or Augmentation?

page 344 of SR4A that says it is cumulative with all other worn armor.

I am not sure what else people would expect it to say in that regard.

Armor in SR just isn't hit location based. Something like the armor vest might have thicker armor than a lined coat but since it covers less area it provides less protection because it is all about a general level of defense and not my chest has 5 armor and my feet 0. Form fitting is a good example of this, which says it adds to the armor rating it does not use the words cumulative. But the shirt level provides 2 ballistic, the half suit 4, the full suit 6. If armor were location specific instead of just an overall rating it would provide 2 armor to a certain number of locations based on the level of form fitting.

Heck called shots to avoid armor are not even shots to the arm, head etc they are just a blanket I want to remove X amount of armor you decide you want to drop the targets armor by 4 for example and you have a 4 dice penalty. So exactly how does this called shot to the cyber limb pan out, I am shooting to avoid 4 armor, oh um I'll randomly decide you shot the cyber arm so you get your armor there? A called shot for extra damage is not location specific, so the cyber limb does not really come into play there. Does it only come into play when you make a called shot for a special effect like when someone says I am shooting the gun out of his hand, or I shoot his leg to slow him down?

[Canis]

If the target has a cyberarm with no armour and Dermal Sheath or Orthoskin, the least armoured location will be the cyberarm.....

I've looked through SR4A and Arsenal and I can't find anything solid on armour stacking, other than when applying the armour and encumberance rules. However pp343 of SR4A says:

Armor enhancements installed on cyberlimbs are both Ballistic and Impact, and it is cumulative with all forms of worn armor.

This leads me to believe that cyberlimb armour may be added to worn armour similar to a helmet or shield. There are several references to armour 'stacking' but I cannot find the rules which say what stacking is - so I'm wondering if this stuff was cut and paste from SR3 rules. If that's the case, then perhaps the above quote was also cut and paste.

We need CGL to untangle this.... cos if armour stacks (as it did in SR3) then that's a major deal for runners, and also will need to be incorporated into HL and also put into the rulebooks :o)

[ahglock]

Originally Posted by Canis

If the target has a cyberarm with no armour and Dermal Sheath or Orthoskin, the least armoured location will be the cyberarm.....

I've looked through SR4A and Arsenal and I can't find anything solid on armour stacking, other than when applying the armour and encumberance rules. However pp343 of SR4A says:



This leads me to believe that cyberlimb armour may be added to worn armour similar to a helmet or shield. There are several references to armour 'stacking' but I cannot find the rules which say what stacking is - so I'm wondering if this stuff was cut and paste from SR3 rules. If that's the case, then perhaps the above quote was also cut and paste.

We need CGL to untangle this.... cos if armour stacks (as it did in SR3) then that's a major deal for runners, and also will need to be incorporated into HL and also put into the rulebooks )

Most armor does not stack, the highest armor worn applies. Specific pieces of armor or cyber add to the total armor rating. Form fitting, orthoskin, PVC? armor shin guards etc., helmets, dermal, and I believe cyber limbs. Unless the armor specifies something like adds to the rating or it is cumulative it does not stack. If cyber limb armor does not stack that would be a big surprise to well pretty much everyone on the official forums and dumpshock.