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Mathias
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Old April 28th, 2018, 06:53 AM
jlong05, your description of the steps is mixing together elements of PC character creation with NPC character creation - for example, the "Racial Traits" section you say to use is rules content that is only for PC characters, and is not used by NPCs (an NPC's ability scores are set by its array and CR - race does not impact them).
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Old April 28th, 2018, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mathias View Post
jlong05, your description of the steps is mixing together elements of PC character creation with NPC character creation - for example, the "Racial Traits" section you say to use is rules content that is only for PC characters, and is not used by NPCs (an NPC's ability scores are set by its array and CR - race does not impact them).
Which I said for a generic pc race should be left up to the gm to set. Let me try another way to explain, as my previous was to mainstream.

I want a CR3 drow ‘priest’, technomancer NPC. How should I do this? Custom has no Drow option as a creature subtype graft. If you select drow enforcer you are forced to a class craft for soldier, or the arms dealer forces envoy. Neither allows from what I can see as a way to create my priestly technomancer to run my evil cult following and torment my players.

These are the options that should be available following the rules from AA, but because you have all AA player races only selectable as a actual race for NPCs you prevent these options from being available.

The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.

Last edited by jlong05; April 28th, 2018 at 07:16 PM.
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jlong05
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Old April 28th, 2018, 03:28 PM
As an addition, maybe I remember wrong, but I thought Pathfinder or maybe it was DND had commoner as a NPC monster that was available for each player race. This allowed you a base template to build from also but the assigned stat block as 10s adjusted for the stat block racial bonuses. I guess I just assumed that was the same in Starfinder as well for each playable race made available in the AA and APs.

The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.
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Dami
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Old April 28th, 2018, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jlong05 View Post
As an addition, maybe I remember wrong, but I thought Pathfinder or maybe it was DND had commoner as a NPC monster that was available for each player race.
Commoner is an NPC Class (not race, monster or template) in 3/3.5 and Pathfinder. You still had to "construct" your base character before adding the class. Starfinder is not PF or 3.5, it's built completely differently - you can't make characters in the same way. PC's and NPC's are not made the same way (Starfinder Rules, not HL/LW choice) and it sounds like you want them to be the same. You can tell Paizo you don't like their way of doing things, but it isn't likely to change the way this happens now.
Maybe an "Encounter Builder" for Starfinder with a bunch of pre-built NPCs to choose from would help you.

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Last edited by Dami; April 28th, 2018 at 04:33 PM. Reason: Clarity, additions
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Old April 28th, 2018, 07:14 PM
I said I couldn’t remember, not that I wanted it to the case. I was offering it as a possible option if it was valid. As you said it is not. What is valid however is my wanting to create custom NPCs following the AA rules for player race selections. Currently ONLY CRB player races work. The AA player races appear missing as the method to use them is different. HLO needs to be consistent for all player races to be used as NPCs, and it currently isn’t. CRB use custom race, but AA races are coded as normal race options, but as I showed for Drow locked to specific grafts, without options to customize.

Hopefully this is simply just an oversight and the AA races will be added as custom race selections, or vice versa the CRB player races will become standard race selections. I have a feeling the only correct method though is the custom route as the CRB races are missing valid stat blocks as a monster.

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thistledown
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Old April 30th, 2018, 10:38 AM
I'll admit my motivation on this is actually a bit backwards. What I really want is for making a PC that takes the human race chassis as a baseline and modifies it from there. And I hadn't seen the 'custom race' option on the PC side until now. I'd still like to see the core races as presets, but might be able to at least get my own character done.

Last edited by thistledown; April 30th, 2018 at 10:44 AM.
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Aaron
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Old May 1st, 2018, 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlong05 View Post
Which I said for a generic pc race should be left up to the gm to set. Let me try another way to explain, as my previous was to mainstream.

I want a CR3 drow ‘priest’, technomancer NPC. How should I do this? Custom has no Drow option as a creature subtype graft. If you select drow enforcer you are forced to a class craft for soldier, or the arms dealer forces envoy. Neither allows from what I can see as a way to create my priestly technomancer to run my evil cult following and torment my players.

These are the options that should be available following the rules from AA, but because you have all AA player races only selectable as a actual race for NPCs you prevent these options from being available.
When you choose Custom Race, click on the race when it is added and give it the name "Drow", then just add the array and technomancer class graft. Since there isn't a subtype graft specifically for drow, add the Elf subtype and then select "Drow" in its dropdown.

You can then add whatever abilities you like past there. If by "priest" you mean the theme, you can either add each ability that adds individually, or the parent ability which bootstraps the set.
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jlong05
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Old May 1st, 2018, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
When you choose Custom Race, click on the race when it is added and give it the name "Drow", then just add the array and technomancer class graft. Since there isn't a subtype graft specifically for drow, add the Elf subtype and then select "Drow" in its dropdown.

You can then add whatever abilities you like past there. If by "priest" you mean the theme, you can either add each ability that adds individually, or the parent ability which bootstraps the set.
While I understand I can go about the entire custom process, the race is in fact in the game with base racial abilities that should be set when you select Drow as a race. I continue to hear this about subtype graft, which is accurate, but clearly poorly designed by Paizo. Its unfortunate that we have to jump through hoops to create the NPC we want simply because Paizo didn't spell it out for everyone, unless we are to believe that NO new AA races are expected to be used outside the defined designs they created.

Again, nothing that LW can fix, as they need to follow the rules as written, I just will wait till we can add custom content ourselves and fix as it is needed.

The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.
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ShadowChemosh
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Old May 1st, 2018, 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlong05 View Post
Its unfortunate that we have to jump through hoops to create the NPC we want simply because Paizo didn't spell it out for everyone, unless we are to believe that NO new AA races are expected to be used outside the defined designs they created.
Yes this is different from Pathfinder. But its not a "jump through hoops" because its a bad thing. Its a different and better way to craft NPCs. If you give it a try you may find you like it way better.

Pathfinder monster creation rules do not work and only "sort of" mimic the same rules as a PC. They really don't and if you ever tried to make a PF1 monster from scratch its comes really clear they don't work. Here is even Mark Seifter post saying the same thing about PF1 rules. It really is much better once you toss out the PF1 rules and start using Starfinder monster rules (plus I am sure this will be close to PF2 rules if you plan to play PF2). I think you will really enjoy the time savings.

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
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ShadowChemosh
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Old May 1st, 2018, 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlong05 View Post
I just will wait till we can add custom content ourselves and fix as it is needed.
Just wanted to add I 100% agree with this part. HLO is just not going to feel complete until we have an editor.

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
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