Lone Wolf Development Forums  

Go Back   Lone Wolf Development Forums > Hero Lab Forums > HL - d20 System

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
ShadowChemosh
Senior Member
Volunteer Data File Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chicago, IL (USA)
Posts: 10,729

Old April 2nd, 2016, 03:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendall-DM View Post
Guys, I was getting LA confused with ECL. I wanted all creatures without class levels to operate the same as 1 HD humanoids, that is they all started at XP 0 and proceeded from there. Unfortunately, it is impossible to do in HL, due to the fact that the racial HD disappear even without any class levels. I can't figure out how to 1) remove the XP requirements for the racial HD and 2) keep the racial HD as they are. This has been a house rule in my game campaign for years, so doing in HL was just something I was trying to get working. Unfortunately, I've just been adding the necessary XP to give it levels, but it doesn't accurately reflect the real XP.

Just an impossible task at this juncture, I've always thought ECL and LA were just unnecessary, as I did without in my game for 1st and 2nd Edition without any real issues. Well, that's that I guess. Thanks for the input!
Well that is pretty easy actually. Attached to this post is a user file with an adjustment that removes the LA value for any race selected. Just tested an Aasimar when added with to a character with this adjustment became 0HD by default and 1HD when adding one level of cleric.

Hope that helps...
Attached Files
File Type: email ~Test.user (469 Bytes, 2 views)

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
ShadowChemosh is offline   #11 Reply With Quote
Kendall-DM
Spy
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Van Nuys, California
Posts: 1,220

Old April 3rd, 2016, 08:50 PM
Shadow,

That's what I'm trying to avoid. I want to keep the racial HD as well as the class levels. I just don't want the racial HD to count as class levels for XP advancement. As HL works, it just doesn't work unfortunately.
Kendall-DM is offline   #12 Reply With Quote
Sendric
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,144

Old April 4th, 2016, 03:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendall-DM View Post
Shadow,

That's what I'm trying to avoid. I want to keep the racial HD as well as the class levels. I just don't want the racial HD to count as class levels for XP advancement. As HL works, it just doesn't work unfortunately.
I wish my DM would allow that. My Half(red)-Dragon Troll would have been awesome. Well, more awesome anyway.
Sendric is offline   #13 Reply With Quote
ShadowChemosh
Senior Member
Volunteer Data File Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chicago, IL (USA)
Posts: 10,729

Old April 4th, 2016, 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendall-DM View Post
Shadow,

That's what I'm trying to avoid. I want to keep the racial HD as well as the class levels. I just don't want the racial HD to count as class levels for XP advancement. As HL works, it just doesn't work unfortunately.
Hmm ok. Will take a look as soon as I can....

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
ShadowChemosh is offline   #14 Reply With Quote
Kendall-DM
Spy
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Van Nuys, California
Posts: 1,220

Old April 5th, 2016, 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sendric View Post
I wish my DM would allow that. My Half(red)-Dragon Troll would have been awesome. Well, more awesome anyway.
Frankly, if you look at 1st and 2nd Ed. you would see that was how it always worked. When the ECL system with the Level Adjustments were introduced in v3.5, it made no sense. Essentially, it meant that monsters were gaining experience towards being monsters, which is totally against what the experience system is meant to represent. I know, I know, arguments can be, and have been, made to indicate the validity of that. However, any Joe Schmo can become a Wizard with 0 XP just because the Humanoid has 1 HD. So where does that HD go, it was there all through birth, childhood, adolescence, and adulthood, but as soon as you choose a class it goes away? *smh* Just a stupid system IMHO, and it should've never been implemented as a catch-all.

Now the argument to balance out characters is valid. A 1st level Ogre is not the equivalent of a 1st level base race character. In order to balance party level, that makes sense, but only as a metric for party balance, and not a catch-all for how experience is distributed. For example, I believe ECL is a great metric to indicate a 1st level Ogre is the equivalent of a 4th level character, but I still think the Ogre starts at 0 XP and would need 1000 XP to gain level. He just increases the party level balance with the ECL of 4th, basically for determining CR of encounters and overall party level or division of experience. Otherwise, an Ogre that is just an Ogre (from birth, childhood, adolescence, and adulthood, just like a base race character) would have to gain 6000 XP before it even chooses its first class, and will take another 4000 XP before it would gain another level. What?!?

In any case, I wouldn't even allow for a half-dragon troll, so you wouldn't like me as a DM. :P

Rant over.
Kendall-DM is offline   #15 Reply With Quote
ShadowChemosh
Senior Member
Volunteer Data File Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chicago, IL (USA)
Posts: 10,729

Old April 5th, 2016, 11:17 AM
For the most part I agree with Kendall-DM actually. My view was the amount of complication to the game never provided a good return on the investment. I was very happy when Pathfinder simply removed all those rules. Which was also why when you brought this all up I had to spend time reading the rules as I simply never used them.

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
ShadowChemosh is offline   #16 Reply With Quote
Sendric
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,144

Old April 6th, 2016, 03:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendall-DM View Post
In any case, I wouldn't even allow for a half-dragon troll, so you wouldn't like me as a DM. :P
That was a unique circumstance. Also, you're no fun.

I don't disagree with your points. I just like having excuses to bring up my old Half-Dragon Troll friend. I miss him.
Sendric is offline   #17 Reply With Quote
Kendall-DM
Spy
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Van Nuys, California
Posts: 1,220

Old April 6th, 2016, 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh View Post
For the most part I agree with Kendall-DM actually. My view was the amount of complication to the game never provided a good return on the investment. I was very happy when Pathfinder simply removed all those rules. Which was also why when you brought this all up I had to spend time reading the rules as I simply never used them.
I don't use them either, obviously. But it still complains to me in HL when I give NPC creatures levels (I made it so that NPCs gain XP just like PCs in HL). I work around the issue, but the XP is incorrect when I 'just make HL happy'.
Kendall-DM is offline   #18 Reply With Quote
Silveras
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,528

Old April 6th, 2016, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh View Post
For the most part I agree with Kendall-DM actually. My view was the amount of complication to the game never provided a good return on the investment. I was very happy when Pathfinder simply removed all those rules. Which was also why when you brought this all up I had to spend time reading the rules as I simply never used them.
Mmm.. I don't know that I'd say Pathfinder got rid of all of them.

Level Adjustment is gone, sure.

But racial HD are still considered equivalent to "levels". See the section "Monstrous Characters" on pp. 405-406 of the Core Rulebook. Basically, the advice is for characters of the "regular" races to start with bonus levels so the total (class levels + racial HD) for all characters is the same.
Silveras is offline   #19 Reply With Quote
ShadowChemosh
Senior Member
Volunteer Data File Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chicago, IL (USA)
Posts: 10,729

Old April 6th, 2016, 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silveras View Post
Mmm.. I don't know that I'd say Pathfinder got rid of all of them.

Level Adjustment is gone, sure.

But racial HD are still considered equivalent to "levels". See the section "Monstrous Characters" on pp. 405-406 of the Core Rulebook. Basically, the advice is for characters of the "regular" races to start with bonus levels so the total (class levels + racial HD) for all characters is the same.
Correct. It now falls into the DM ruling section instead of lots of pages of rules. Besides add in all the races from the ARG and I don't see the desire from players for playing Half-dragons and stuff anymore. Pretty much everything gets covered with 0HD races.

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
ShadowChemosh is offline   #20 Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® - Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
wolflair.com copyright ©1998-2016 Lone Wolf Development, Inc. View our Privacy Policy here.