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daplunk
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Old September 8th, 2020, 02:38 AM
Thanks for the response Rob.

I think it's safe to say that many of us knew and understood the reasons for the path taken. I've said in a few different places that I believe you did what had to be done.

My original post was to bring to attention the outstanding issues that were introduced after the decision was made. I for one can go on using RW for a long long time (even without Calendars) but HLC integration and ability to import are critical.

Thanks for the info regarding the HLC Integration. That's not information I was aware of and if I wasn't aware I'd wager many others were also not aware. Can we recommend the forums are cleaned up and stickies made to bring attention to the current state of Realm Works and the known work-around for this issue documented and pinned? Honestly I would think the Content Market should also be updated with some information as to the known limitations. This would help avoid confusion for new customers. We still see them pop into the social circles occasionally. It might give some confidence back to those who would be purchasing content if they knew that a workaround was available.

In regards to the import bugs. 255 was never formally released and I would call your attention to the forums where multiple users reported issues with 255. People were uninstalling it and reverting back to 253 in order to maintain the ability to import/export. I never tested it myself in fear of loosing... well part of my soul.

People talking about issues with 255

Glad to see you have recovered from the awful time you were having the last time we spoke. I for one know how close you were to Realm Works and wish it had turned out more successful for all involved.

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daplunk is offline   #21 Reply With Quote
Valyar
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Old September 8th, 2020, 04:28 AM
Quote:
At present, there is no mechanism within Realm Works to simultaneously support both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the same external tool, and that's further complicated by the fact that Realm Works itself is only a 32-bit application. Adding this capability would entail a non-trivial amount of work.
I am confused. Isn't RW 64bit application? In 1.0.1086.246 is stated that there is full support for running as 64-bit application. Task Manager reports Platform as 64bit, and now when you mentioned the quoted statement I ran the executable via sigcheck and it shows 32-bit MachineType.

How so RW is 32-bit? What is the truth?

The past is a rudder to guide us, not an anchor to hold us back.
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lancealittle
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Old September 8th, 2020, 07:38 AM
@Rob, i understand the path you took for RW, but i still dont like it - its a genuine loss to most of the RW users out there...
Would you be so kind as to clarify something for me - sidelined, here in the UK businesses, means put aside. It does not mean 'retired', for want of a better word. Is RW permanently 'retired / sidelined / benched' ? or is there the smallest chance that in the future it may start being developed sometime, even if part-time ?
regards.
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nightpanda2810
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Old September 8th, 2020, 07:47 AM
Rob,

Please set up a RW Patreon. If you're concerned about setting that up and not getting enough contribution, get a survey out to see how many would contribute. I certainly would, as I want RW to be continue to be the end-all campaign manager. This Patreon account should ONLY be used for Realm Works and nothing else; you've said it yourself, HL is having no trouble supporting itself.

You can also do paid upgrades for big features. Everybody hates micro transactions, but sometimes they make sense, and from what you've said here that may be what's needed for RW. You could even have one of the Patreon tiers include free upgrades to this.

If a V3.0 were to come out, paid upgrade, my wishlist would be:
  • Dark Mode. Seriously, I'd drop $60 JUST for this. RW is the only thing I use now that blinds me during a game.
  • Calendars
  • Error messages that users can understand. IE; Error in Snippet 5 in topic "World News" preventing import/export.
  • More robust import/export features/options. I get annoyed when I have "overwrite" checked and it creates "quest01" instead of overwriting them.
  • In the same vein as the previous two points, complete the import with errors; just skip the part that failed.

As for 255, it was released about 10 months ago, and introduced a different import bug. Daplunk provided a link to the forum post about it.

As for 64-bit, what? Didn't it go 64 a LONG time ago? I remember being excited about it when that came out, now you're saying its not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valyar View Post
I am confused. Isn't RW 64bit application? In 1.0.1086.246 is stated that there is full support for running as 64-bit application. Task Manager reports Platform as 64bit, and now when you mentioned the quoted statement I ran the executable via sigcheck and it shows 32-bit MachineType.

How so RW is 32-bit? What is the truth?
Looked myself at the patch notes right from the launcher:

Realm Works® Version 1.0.1086.246
There is now full support for running as a 64-bit application. If your computer supports 64-bits, the product will automatically run in 64-bit.

Realmworks Template Management
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kbs666
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Old September 8th, 2020, 06:42 PM
I do appreciate the hard work and passion Rob has put into RW. I want that clear from the start.

However:

1) RW is a 64 bit application. Not only has Rob said so I can run it through a decompiler and check that for myself. There should be no issue having it launch another 64 bit or 32 bit application.
2) Build 255 is broken worse than 254 at least for me. I can work around the issues in 254 to create exports. In 255 I can not export AT ALL. I am not the only one to report issues of this sort.

I do humbly ask that Rob let the community, that is still passionate about this product, help him monetize it. Get the import/export issue fixed, if necessary I'm sure I'm not the only coder that would be willing to take a look gratis. Find a couple of people you trust to look over submissions to verify they aren't copyright violations or otherwise unacceptable. Then put them up for a reasonable, low fee. Villages, inns, small dungeons. the sorts of things that GM's are always in need of and that due to the nature of RW slot in very easily. Take a big cut, the creators know going in what they are doing. Get some buzz going. that is the only way you'll get people to buy the program and build the user base. Without an expanded user base no other plan to monetize the program will ever work

my Realm Works videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZU...4DwXXkvmBXQ9Yw
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stuartwaring
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Old September 8th, 2020, 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbs666 View Post
I do humbly ask that Rob let the community, that is still passionate about this product, help him monetize it. Get the import/export issue fixed, if necessary I'm sure I'm not the only coder that would be willing to take a look gratis. Find a couple of people you trust to look over submissions to verify they aren't copyright violations or otherwise unacceptable. Then put them up for a reasonable, low fee. Villages, inns, small dungeons. the sorts of things that GM's are always in need of and that due to the nature of RW slot in very easily. Take a big cut, the creators know going in what they are doing. Get some buzz going. that is the only way you'll get people to buy the program and build the user base. Without an expanded user base no other plan to monetize the program will ever work
This! I love writing stories etc but map creation etc has always been one step too far for the amount of time I have. I could easily be persuaded to part with $10 for a dungeon, $5 for a village, $15-$20 for a town/city with a couple of districts and maybe the odd warehouse and temple to explore.

Sure they aren't big ticket, but it would be like shopping in KMart: $5 + $5 +$10 +$5 somehow very rapidly adds up to $100 or more!

I remember the reason the buzz around the content market is because by and large this community is cash rich but time poor.

I would love to have maps and towns all mapped out and I just weave my story and characters around them!
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rob
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Old September 8th, 2020, 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farling View Post
I think the comments about the future of HL were really related to the future of HLC and the ability of any HL product to support user-generated game systems.
Given that @daplunk posted in the Hero Lab Online forums immediately after a post from a user commenting about the delays with Shadowrun content support in HLO, I interpreted the reference differently. Regardless of what was intended, I'm gonna guess that I wasn't the only person who interpreted it that way, so clarifying that subject was necessary. <shrug>
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rob
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Old September 8th, 2020, 11:28 PM
You guys are absolutely right. Realm Works is 64-bit. One of the unpleasant hallmarks of the meds I was on is an almost complete inability to remember anything from January 2017 to early 2019. So I had no recollection of the 64-bit update in 2018 and was too exhausted to think to check that detail.

You can therefore strike the bit about integrating 64-bit Hero Lab being "further complicated by the fact that Realm Works itself is only a 32-bit application". Unfortunately, that doesn't change the rest of that section and the fact that there remains no existing way to integrate both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the same external application into Realm Works. That's something we never considered in the design, so it's still a non-trivial chunk of work to add that.
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rob
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Old September 8th, 2020, 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daplunk View Post
Can we recommend the forums are cleaned up and stickies made to bring attention to the current state of Realm Works and the known work-around for this issue documented and pinned?
I'll see what can be done about that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by daplunk View Post
Honestly I would think the Content Market should also be updated with some information as to the known limitations.
Regarding HLClassic integration, all that's needed is to launch it via Realm Works or the icon/shortcut for the 32-bit version. The HLC installer automatically installs both versions.

Where would you suggest we post this to make it clear? You appear to have clear knowledge of the complaints being lodged in these other circles, so you probably have some recommendations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daplunk View Post
In regards to the import bugs. 255 was never formally released and I would call your attention to the forums where multiple users reported issues with 255. People were uninstalling it and reverting back to 253 in order to maintain the ability to import/export. I never tested it myself in fear of loosing... well part of my soul.
The only quote I see about 255 not working in that thread is this: "255 is broken anyway, so that would't be useful at all." When I read that, I assumed it was due to the certificate error, since it lacked any further useful information.

According to the developer I spoke with over the weekend, the only problem we're aware of is what we fixed in build 255. If there is anything else wrong, it's not on the radar of that developer (nor myself, since I've been getting my information from him about those details). So we're absolutely gonna need more details and concrete examples to replicate any additional problems.

Also, all of the material we've published imports smoothly for us in build 254 and build 255. From what I understand, the bug we fixed in build 255 was limited to user-exported material in build 254.
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rob
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Old September 8th, 2020, 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancealittle View Post
@Rob, i understand the path you took for RW, but i still dont like it - its a genuine loss to most of the RW users out there...
Would you be so kind as to clarify something for me - sidelined, here in the UK businesses, means put aside. It does not mean 'retired', for want of a better word. Is RW permanently 'retired / sidelined / benched' ? or is there the smallest chance that in the future it may start being developed sometime, even if part-time ?
regards.
As I said in my post, I'd love to return to Realm Works. However, that is contingent upon coming up with a different business model for it so that it's financially viable.

If that occurs, it's quite likely that Realm Works would take a very different form. The underlying data model is quite robust and solid, so I would imagine that remains largely unchanged. That would mean users with the existing product would hopefully be able to migrate to the new form. What's also likely, though, is that this theoretical "new form" probably won't have all the fine-grain feature control of the current product (absolutely not initially), so that could present a migration problem for users who want continue using "Feature X" from the desktop application that doesn't in this new form.

But that's all complete conjecture based on wishful thinking. At the present time, I have not come up with an alternate, viable financial model for Realm Works, so it's nothing more than a theoretical exercise.
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