RealmWorks Database Format Documentation

[liz]

@azomboid, you’ve also indicated throughout this thread that PDFs can be easily pirated, and suggested that we shouldn’t try to protect against it. Simply stated, we will be doing all we can to protect our partners’ IP. Let me explain our rationale a little bit more below.

We’ve mentioned this elsewhere, but Paizo goes to great lengths to police pirating of their PDFs, and so do many other companies. This is an absolute necessity, as I’ll explain in a moment. The realities of piracy make publishers very sensitive to the subject. We’re well aware that there are known limits as to what security can be implemented through PDFs, and publishers are actually looking to achieve significantly greater protection through Realm Works’ digital sharing. Your contention that PDFs are readily shared neglects to consider that publishers want the next solution to be an improvement – not the status quo.

Unfortunately, piracy is a big problem in our industry and it has a dramatic impact on the bottom-line and financial viability for virtually any company who offers their products digitally. We experienced piracy ourselves shortly after the company got started. Almost 15 years ago, we found out the DRM we originally used within our Army Builder product had been hacked. Because that hacked version was readily available, it turns out nearly 80% of our user base was using a pirated copy (based on metrics we instituted within the product to determine our exposure). That was 15 years ago, when the world wasn’t as plugged into the internet as it is now, so it’s doubtful that consumer attitudes (i.e. those numbers) have improved over time.

This experience speaks to the general philosophy of many gamers in our industry – if they can get it for free, they will. Once we implemented a new DRM mechanism, our sales tripled, which clearly showed that people wanted the product and were willing to pay for it – but only if they couldn’t get it for free. It’s safe to say that without the financial success of Army Builder, we wouldn’t have had the resources to develop Hero Lab, and, without the DRM we now use, it’s unlikely that publishers would have trusted their IP with us.

This experience has also made us keenly aware of the need to secure the intellectual property of not just ourselves, but also the publishers we partner with. That’s one of the reasons our partners have trusted us over the years, and why they’re willing to pursue partnering with us for Realm Works. An important goal with Realm Works is to improve content security for publishers, which will increase their sales and ultimately their ability to put out more and better material than they already do. Failing to do our utmost to protect their IP would represent an acceptance of the status quo, squander an opportunity to improve the financial health of the industry, and fail to put ourselves in the strongest position possible to court publishers. As Rob has mentioned in the past, Realm Works’ financial success relies on the Content Market, which centers on the adventures, campaign settings, and other material from publishers. We would be risking the product’s long-term viability by making choices that don’t take the needs of these key partners into consideration. That’s why we’ve chosen the path we have.

[EightBitz]

Originally Posted by liz

Your contention that PDFs are readily shared neglects to consider that publishers want the next solution to be an improvement – not the status quo.

[...] We experienced piracy ourselves shortly after the company got started. Almost 15 years ago, we found out the DRM we originally used within our Army Builder product had been hacked.

[...] This experience speaks to the general philosophy of many gamers in our industry – if they can get it for free, they will. Once we implemented a new DRM mechanism, our sales tripled, which clearly showed that people wanted the product and were willing to pay for it – but only if they couldn’t get it for free.

*sigh* This is why we can't have nice things ...

I remember recommending Hero Lab and RealmWorks to a friend, and he was asking me questions about how the licensing works. He and I have both done many rebuilds, and we've been burned on not being able to reinstall software we've legitimately purchased. I told him that your licensing model for both was superb. I've done many rebuilds and license transfers since I've purchased Hero Lab, and I've never been left out in the cold. Sometimes, I've had to wait a day or two, but that was the worst of it.

When publishers look for improvements, I only hope they keep in mind a balance between protecting their IP and respecting their customer base. I know this isn't on you guys. It's just a general comment.

One of my coworkers is a musician, and he once bought a certain brand of digital recorder to record his live gigs. When he tried to copy those digital recordings to his computer for archiving and processing, the device would not let him, because of copy controls ... even though it was his own, original stuff that he recorded. And that's just ridiculous.

I understand companies wanting to protect their IP, and I greatly respect when companies do it in a way that still respects their customers, but some people lose sight of that, and that's a shame.

[AEIOU]

I'll give the content market a chance. Once. And if it's too restrictive on how I can use the content I have paid for, I won't buy any more. LWD needs to get it right for both the publishers and the users. Or they need to figure out how to sustain themselves on cloud subscriptions alone....

[azomboid]

Originally Posted by liz

Before answering, I’m going to clarify the language used in this thread by differentiating between “copyright” and “intellectual property”. To be clear, I’m not an expert on this stuff (we have a lawyer on retainer to help us navigate the legal issues when necessary), but this clarification is important.

• Copyright is the exclusive right to make copies, license, and otherwise exploit a literary, musical, or artistic work, whether printed, audio, video, etc.: works granted such right by law on or after January 1, 1978, are protected for the lifetime of the author or creator and for a period of 70 years after his or her death within the U.S.
• Intellectual Property is property that results from original creative thought, as patents, copyright material, and trademarks.

I’m going to use the term “intellectual property” (or IP), as it covers copyrights, trademarks, and other areas of concerns for most publishers.

Your two questions appear to be the following:

1. Why can users export characters and character creation details (like spell/ability descriptions) from tools like Hero Lab and Fantasy Grounds if it’s a publisher’s IP?
2. If publishers are fine with exporting characters and character creation details, why would they have a problem with exporting content through Realm Works?

I can speak to Hero Lab, as it’s our tool, but my answers likely apply to Fantasy Grounds as well. For the game systems for which we have a license, the publishers knew what users could export/print when we came to an agreement. They came to the same realization that many users have arrived at – Hero Lab does not replace the rulebooks. You could try to play Pathfinder (or another supported game system) with just Hero Lab and without the rulebooks, but you would be missing a lot of context and you wouldn’t truly understand the game or your character. Running a game with just Hero Lab would be even harder. That’s because Hero Lab is mainly game mechanics, and complements the rulebooks. Because of this, our publishing partners have licensed their intellectual property (specifically, the IP needed for character creation) so that we can use it in Hero Lab.

Realm Works is very different from Hero Lab. Whereas Hero Lab is mostly game mechanics, the Realm Works Content Market will sell rules content, campaign worlds, adventures, and similar intellectual property. This material, if exported, could be used by some people in place of the official books because of the way it is presented and compiled – it’s essentially the entire book reorganized, augmented with things like plot diagrams and map pins, fully indexed, and extensively cross-linked.

As an example, we sell the Rise of the Runelords encounters through Hero Lab. These encounters include all of the monsters & NPCs present throughout the official Pathfinder Adventure Path. Someone could technically print all of the monsters & NPCs to PDF and put them on their website. However, they’re not that valuable by themselves, because you don’t know the story details (the context) behind their character sheets.

Now imagine we sold Rise of the Runelords in Realm Works, and that we had some sort of print to PDF feature. While it might not be organized the same way as the official PDF or printed book, suddenly someone could print the Rise of the Runelords story, put it on their website, and anyone could grab it for free. You can imagine that Paizo (the publisher behind Pathfinder) would not be very pleased with us, especially since they’re still selling Rise of the Runelords. Angering one of our partner companies would not be a good business move for us.

I hope this makes it clear that the content exported or printed from Hero Lab is fundamentally different from the content that could potentially be exported or printed from Realm Works, and so it really cannot be compared.

Thank you very much for the clarification. Let me begin by saying this did clear up a few things in my mind and again saying thank you. So, I guess it's been said before but what stops them from simply using other methods... screenshot the module... type it out... stuff that we know already happens on cases with our favorite games. Secondly, if it's a PDF I suppose one could say yes they could pirate it but we should encourage strong drm... well I agree with the drm part as far as watermarks or another measure goes but the lack of access makes combining rw with other tools difficult at best. Frankly it does not function as it was said it wasn't intended to do as a VTT... so it's another whole program I need open during the game. (that's just me ofcourse sorry bit of a rant) Lastly, while I mostly agree with your points about FG one thing stuck out to me and that was about rulesets... The Edge of the Empire ruleset on FG is pretty good for a v3.0 that one guy made. It has the entire core book but when you go to read about an item it says refer to page so and so for description.... This method has been openly used on the official FFG (a parent company) forums for a long time now. It seems to be completely fine with them because they remove other IP infringing links. So, if that's okay, that puts the onus on the person as it should be not to steal... and if they do and publish infringing then a lawsuit could be filed against them as the law provides. So, I guess my question is two fold about the last point. One. Will the marketplace have the ability to share character sheets and other mechanics information... ie npc's and the like with a refer to pg# in book so and so to share? So, not taking from the book but simply filling out the free published online character sheet with references to the book. Secondly, is there anyway to just give us the ability to export certain features... Places (w/maps) and characters (w/maps) but not give us the ability to export stuff like story events and timelines... that would at least let the people who run parrellel games with friends and share resources start at least building a community in the non supported games. Again, I'd like to thank you for the frank and honest discussion of this issue.

[Vargr]

Well, basically it comes down to the owners of the data.

LWD can't do much more than suggest solutions and hope they and the owner can find a compromise that they are both happy with.

LWD is of course bound by the agreement they make with the owner.

So basically we should petition the owner of our favourite game/world/movie to allow a huge degree of sharing of their content in RW - and not LWD.

[Dark Lord Galen]

Originally Posted by EightBitz

*sigh* This is why we can't have nice things ...

Yep, stupid people doing stupid things means we all suffer for it. Its funny how nature doesn't seem to have this same rule. If your "stupid" your lunch.

Originally Posted by EightBitz

.............. I've done many rebuilds and license transfers since I've purchased Hero Lab, and I've never been left out in the cold. Sometimes, I've had to wait a day or two, but that was the worst of it.

## Here Here and Agreed! Like Eightbitz, HL has migrated across multiple laptop upgrades at my table as well. And while their has been the occasional bump in the road for incompatibilities of *.user files, the licensing has NEVER been an issue. In fact if everything else were to operate as seamlessly there would be a lot less to post about.

Originally Posted by EightBitz

When publishers look for improvements, I only hope they keep in mind a balance between protecting their IP and respecting their customer base. I know this isn't on you guys. It's just a general comment.

Well said

Originally Posted by AEIOU

I'll give the content market a chance. Once. And if it's too restrictive on how I can use the content I have paid for, I won't buy any more............

My view as well.

Originally Posted by azomboid

............So, I guess it's been said before but what stops them from simply using other methods... screenshot the module... type it out... stuff that we know already happens on cases with our favorite games.

Nothing prevents it. Azomboid, it is not LWD task to police "less than honest" people on there nefarious ways, that is simply unrealistic. As a small company LWD would be prudent in identifying those that use their product in such ways and hand them over to the owners of that IP and their armies of lawyers. Just as Piazo, Drivethru RPG, and many others already do via the watermarks and other warning mechanisms they put into place.

I suspect you know that already though. So, I really have a hard time trying to understand what it is you hope to gain by your continued reverbing of ways and means the masses choose to circumvent the protections in place for those that have rightly earned it by their creativity and willingness to share with all of us?

Originally Posted by azomboid

............ Frankly it does not function as it was said it wasn't intended to do as a VTT... so it's another whole program I need open during the game. (that's just me ofcourse sorry bit of a rant)

I really don't get this statement. IN GENERAL (excluding debated sub features and the survey induced priority need) Realm Works functions EXACTLY as described, as a game management tool. I don't know if the latter half of your post was an inadvertent mis-typing, but it is accurate. RW "wasn't {EVER} intended to be a VTT."

Originally Posted by azomboid

....... It has the entire core book but when you go to read about an item it says refer to page so and so for description.... This method has been openly used on the official FFG (a parent company) forums for a long time now.

And there is nothing saying that RW (LWD) may not take that approach. IT is dependent on the owner of the IP as well. You can't judge LWD on their methods approach until seen, that is simply unreasonable.

Originally Posted by Vargr

Well, basically it comes down to the owners of the data. LWD can't do much more than suggest solutions and hope they and the owner can find a compromise that they are both happy with. LWD is of course bound by the agreement they make with the owner.
So basically we should petition the owner of our favourite game/world/movie to allow a huge degree of sharing of their content in RW - and not LWD.

Spot on Vargr... remember azomboid, (and any that support his perspective) LWD is not the owner of the IP in this case.

[Acenoid]

I want just my data to be fully accessible and so on. Bought stuff - don't care

[rob]

Originally Posted by Acenoid

I want just my data to be fully accessible and so on. Bought stuff - don't care

Once your data gets co-mingled with purchased content, where does the line get drawn? That's where all this gets mighty complicated.

Let's say you import some purchased content in with your own, then let's say you go in and heavily modify some of that purchased content, making it 90% your own creation. Is it yours? Or not? We could do things simply and make it an all-or-nothing thing, but lots of folks aren't going to like that. They want the parts they created to be their own.

But what about a snippet that started out as purchased content and only had one word changed? Or 5 words? Or whatever threshold you want to pick? Now extend this question to every other type of content within RW and the minor to major changes that users will be able to make to purchased content. It all gets very blurry very quickly.

That's the real problem that has to be solved to do this "right". And it's not something that can be done easily.

[rob]

Originally Posted by azomboid

So, I guess my question is two fold about the last point. One. Will the marketplace have the ability to share character sheets and other mechanics information... ie npc's and the like with a refer to pg# in book so and so to share? So, not taking from the book but simply filling out the free published online character sheet with references to the book.

Yes. As long as the contents of the characters are well within the bounds of commonly held views on fair use, there won't be any problems. Including references to page numbers in rulebooks is generally considered to be fair use, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Originally Posted by azomboid

Secondly, is there anyway to just give us the ability to export certain features... Places (w/maps) and characters (w/maps) but not give us the ability to export stuff like story events and timelines... that would at least let the people who run parrellel games with friends and share resources start at least building a community in the non supported games. Again, I'd like to thank you for the frank and honest discussion of this issue.

That gets extremely difficult. Why? Because the views of PublisherA won't necessarily match the views of PublisherB regarding what is/isn't acceptable. In addition, for a game like Star Wars, the contents of certain maps may actually be closely held IP, while others aren't. Then there's the blurring that can arise between what's a map and what's a picture. You could easily include a picture of Han Solo within a smart image. So if we made maps always safe to share, it could readily be abused by someone who tried to work around the framework we put into place.

The bottom line is that each distinct element may or may not be considered IP, whether it's story, timeline, picture, map, or whatever. That makes the entire subject of sharing material very murky, and different publishers will often have different views on what is/isn't reasonable to share - with Disney generally being one of the more stringent. As I indicated above, it all boils down what is generally considered to be fair use. Anything that ventures outside that "safe zone" will run the risk of receiving a take-down notice from the publisher, which we would be obliged to honor.

For more information on fair use, which is itself a somewhat grey area of law with regards to interpretation, I recommend starting with a Google search. There are numerous thoughts on the subject from qualified legal sources that will probably be very enlightening. The question of what is/isn't fair use is not one we'll be actively getting involved in, but we will absolutely be responsive when a publisher claims use of their IP falls outside of fair use. So it's best that you and anyone else interested in the subject understand it before running afoul of it.

Important Note: For anyone worried about the ability to run a private game for their gaming group with Realm Works, that should never be a problem. The intent of the publisher when selling RPG material is that the GM be able to share that information with his players. So entering and revealing content to players over the course of a game is perfectly legitimate - it's what are already expected to do today. The issue arises when IP is shared beyond the scope of a gaming group. That's what @azomboid is seeking for us to support, and that's where we will side with the publisher by honoring any take-down notice we receive if users overstep the limits of what the publisher considers acceptable.

[azomboid]

Originally Posted by rob

Yes. As long as the contents of the characters are well within the bounds of commonly held views on fair use, there won't be any problems. Including references to page numbers in rulebooks is generally considered to be fair use, so that shouldn't be an issue.



That gets extremely difficult. Why? Because the views of PublisherA won't necessarily match the views of PublisherB regarding what is/isn't acceptable. In addition, for a game like Star Wars, the contents of certain maps may actually be closely held IP, while others aren't. Then there's the blurring that can arise between what's a map and what's a picture. You could easily include a picture of Han Solo within a smart image. So if we made maps always safe to share, it could readily be abused by someone who tried to work around the framework we put into place.

The bottom line is that each distinct element may or may not be considered IP, whether it's story, timeline, picture, map, or whatever. That makes the entire subject of sharing material very murky, and different publishers will often have different views on what is/isn't reasonable to share - with Disney generally being one of the more stringent. As I indicated above, it all boils down what is generally considered to be fair use. Anything that ventures outside that "safe zone" will run the risk of receiving a take-down notice from the publisher, which we would be obliged to honor.

For more information on fair use, which is itself a somewhat grey area of law with regards to interpretation, I recommend starting with a Google search. There are numerous thoughts on the subject from qualified legal sources that will probably be very enlightening. The question of what is/isn't fair use is not one we'll be actively getting involved in, but we will absolutely be responsive when a publisher claims use of their IP falls outside of fair use. So it's best that you and anyone else interested in the subject understand it before running afoul of it.

Important Note: For anyone worried about the ability to run a private game for their gaming group with Realm Works, that should never be a problem. The intent of the publisher when selling RPG material is that the GM be able to share that information with his players. So entering and revealing content to players over the course of a game is perfectly legitimate - it's what are already expected to do today. The issue arises when IP is shared beyond the scope of a gaming group. That's what @azomboid is seeking for us to support, and that's where we will side with the publisher by honoring any take-down notice we receive if users overstep the limits of what the publisher considers acceptable.

Perhaps a export without img or just a way to export custom sheet rules? That way everyone is kinda on the same page when the marketplace does come. Just a thought if it's not possible I understand. So does that mean the strategy will indeed be to simply police to market with companies serving take down requests? I advocated for this in a earlier post I think. I'm extremely happy with the mechanics and character sheet public domain answer. However I must point out is what you said I'm seeking you to support is simply a not true of my stance. It's not that you should simply let people infringe on peoples IP but something a little less stringent like other programs... I know we are waiting on the marketplace and I am really hoping that solves it. I just think some of this goes too far. I've never once said oh go pirate this or that. I'm just trying to point out the futility in it in hopes of a more liberal approach taken to some of, if not all of the data but I'd be happy with some. I assume I'll settle for little to no access outside of this portal. Honestly other than my inablilty to use this with a VTT I love this program in like every way. If this partnered with FG or somehow they made like and import export licesnse directly to it or something... omg I'd cry lol.