So now they are *charging* for differnet Same system files?!

[Jiraiya]

So i need to pay for individual game system files, specifically, $20 for to totally unlock the WoD file?

Never had to do this with ArmyBuilder or CardVault...

Kind of sorry I picked up Hero Lab now... :x

Jiraiya[/i]

[FifthWanderer]

Keep in mind that they have to *pay* licensing fees to the game companies in order to produce these data files. And the development of Hero Lab and the data files represents no small amount of time on their part. They're entitled to make that back.

A character generator by necessity must include parts of the game system. That's the game company's intellectual property. With a minis or card game, the money's not in the rules, but in the minis and the cards. An RPG's 'worth' is those rules. I've done work on character generators before, and sometimes game companies can get a little antsy about exactly how much of their stuff you put in. There's a fine line between utility and the game company's rights.

[rob]

At 11:13 AM 5/7/2008, you wrote:

Keep in mind that they have to *pay* licensing fees to the game companies in order to produce these data files. And the development of Hero Lab and the data files represents no small amount of time on their part. They're entitled to make that back.

A character generator by necessity must include parts of the game system. That's the game company's intellectual property. With a minis or card game, the money's not in the rules, but in the minis and the cards. An RPG's 'worth' is those rules. I've done work on character generators before, and sometimes game companies can get a little antsy about exactly how much of their stuff you put in. There's a fine line between utility and the game company's rights.

You summed it up nicely. While AB and CV are essentially sales tools to promote the sale of minis and/or cards, RPGs work much differently. In order to be able to incorporate extensive elements of the game's IP into the data files, we've secured a license from the RPG publishers. That entails paying them a royalty, which means we have to charge separately for each game system.

[Pollution]

Let's not forget the fact that just to put in that stuff takes a TON of man hours.

I've been updating my HL with every book's bloodline/discipline/devotion/merit/whatever and I'm at 60 hours and maybe 1/2 there. AND on top of the fact that I'm not the one who wrote all the changes to make WoD work in the first place. That probably took MUCH more time/work, since you're gutting the original program THEN making changes.

Do you really think it's too much to ask to have a $20 fee for that kind of effort? Hell, my LARP is paying me $20 membership fees to cover the books I buy and the paper and the ink, and everything else I get for the LARP. I'll be giving them my non copywrited containing work in HL as a bonus for them to use.

Yeah, can't agree with you here, the pure man hours needed to put this stuff out is insane on it's own. I'll happily pay for more functionality.

[Jiraiya]

I really hadn't considered the difference between RPGs and card/mini games. Thank you for the explanation.

I just fuelled up my car for $60 so that might explain my earlier snark. I beg forgiveness.

Does the purchase of the WoD license apply for all the different game systems or just for the current license (currently, mortals, ghosts and vampire). In other words, will we have to pay separately for future Werwolf, Mage, Promethean and Changeling files when/if they are released?

Thanks,

Jiraiya

[Pollution]

It's been stated that, yes there will be an additional licensing fee, but IIRC, it won't be as high. Also, when THEY input the other books/systems into it there will be an additional fee per pack. So say, all the covenant books = $15, all the Clan books (when they're out) another $15, all the rest of the stuff (New Orleans, Chicago, ect...) $5-$10. I might be wrong, but I think if you have the WoD license, then the other games (promethean, changling, mage, forsaken, ect...) might also only be $12-$15. I can't remember off the top of my head.

And quite honestly, with SOO much stuff put into this program, and the amount of source material that you can get just from the program (not RULES, but stats, background, extras, ect...) it's a fair price. If you buy all the covenant books, you're looking at over $100, but they'll give you the clans/rituals/oaths/coils/merits/devotions/ect... for $15, I'll pay that in a heartbeat.

It's not really about how much it costs, so much as how much it doesn't cost. Does that make sense?

[FifthWanderer]

The data files probably will include the names of things, but not the mechanics behind them. You'll still need the books.

[rob]

At 04:05 AM 5/9/2008, you wrote:

It's been stated that, yes there will be an additional licensing fee, but IIRC, it won't be as high.

You'll find more details on this topic in the thread entitled "a pricing question", which is available at the link below:
http://support.wolflair.com/index.php?name=MDForum&file=viewtopic&t=7788&highl ight=pricing

[Aldaron]

I'm happy to pay as much as LW want for Mage & Werewolf...just...*sinks to knees and grabs Rob's leg*...pleeeeeaaaassssseeeee bring it out soon!

*cries and shoots self*

[IanDominey]

I second that. I'm about to start a Mage game and I can't believe that I have to go back to using pen and paper after using Hero Lab for Vampire for so long!

And Rob, charge what you like mate. Your hard work is worth the cost. I'm sure that creating this program wasn't easy.