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Dark Lord Galen
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Old August 1st, 2017, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Parody View Post
................. I'll emphasize that as long as a Realm Works user can name the object RW uses for a "reveal target" then those "reveal targets" can't be limited to what RPG players who don't use Realm Works think of as a player character. The LWD folks might call them PCs for simplicity, but you can use them however you want.
EXACTLY........... just about as straight forward a path that would produce a wide range of choice. IF LWD wanted to be ambitious , they "could" allow the user (ie DM) to create categories similar to the tag approach for the user to create "group reveals". But hardly a have to, as Parody points out the reveal target could already be a "group" already defined elsewhere.
+10

D&D> Pre 1e White Box Edition, 1e, 2e, 3.5 Currently, Set in the World of Greyhawk (The first, longest running and Best Campaign Setting)
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nodice
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Old August 1st, 2017, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Parody View Post
I did a lot of editing so don't know where I was when you responded (sorry about that) but I'll emphasize that as long as a Realm Works user can name the object RW uses for a "reveal target" then those "reveal targets" can't be limited to what RPG players who don't use Realm Works think of as a player character. The LWD folks might call them PCs for simplicity, but you can use them however you want.
An assertion like this implies that the gears are already in motion. Are you stating that this is how development is already proceeding or just chiming in with your view of the ideal design premise?
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Parody
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Old August 2nd, 2017, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by nodice View Post
An assertion like this implies that the gears are already in motion. Are you stating that this is how development is already proceeding or just chiming in with your view of the ideal design premise?
It's purely logic and has nothing to do with any specific Realm Works implementation that may come in the future. My train of thought:

- Currently revealing is an on/off toggle for all accounts associated with the Realm; either an item is revealed to everyone or nobody.

- The suggestion is to add a more granular reveal system, such that an item can be revealed to some "whatevers" and not to other "whatevers".

- When a GM goes to reveal an item to a "whatever", the UI has to be able to show the GM a list of "whatevers" from which the GM can pick. The most likely source is some type of object associated with the Realm.

- These "whatever" objects have to be created by someone, and since the objects are associated with the Realm that someone is likely also associated with the Realm.

- One of the attributes of a "whatever" is the text shown in the list of "whatevers", otherwise people looking at the list couldn't tell them apart. This text is likely something the creator of the "whatever" can set and change; otherwise I don't think we (the Realm Works users) would find it very useful.

- Combining things together: if a person associated with the Realm (whether GM or Player) can create and name a "whatever", then a "whatever" can represent anything. It doesn't matter what term the LWD folks use for the "whatever" object.


The term "reveal target" is one I made up, mostly to try to get readers to disassociate the general RPG term of Player Character from whatever term Realm Works may eventually use. Here I went even more generic just to show that the name doesn't matter. (I think "reveal target" is a decent generic name for the concept, though. :)


Last edited by Parody; August 2nd, 2017 at 01:43 AM.
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nodice
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Old August 2nd, 2017, 06:09 AM
Thanks for the clarification Parody. The reasoning you present makes sense to me. The iteration of the individual reveal that you have expressed may seem more complicated than only breaking it down to reveal by player, but it is certainly much more useful and thorough.

Beyond individual player reveal, which is essentially a requirement for any pvp campaign worth its name, individual entity reveal would allow RW to handle some very useful scenarios, such as the following;

One player playing multiple characters, each with unique memories.

A character changing from player-controlled to GM-controlled, and vice versa.

A dedicated mechanism, similar to relations, for any entity 'being aware' of another entity, eg, a guild learning of the existence of a bounty.

Some of these things might seem like overly burdensome bookkeeping to some people, but for games where not all players are 'on the same team' they allow for much deeper gameplay options.
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Dark Lord Galen
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Old August 2nd, 2017, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Parody View Post
......................

The term "reveal target" is one I made up, mostly to try to get readers to disassociate the general RPG term of Player Character from whatever term Realm Works may eventually use. Here I went even more generic just to show that the name doesn't matter. (I think "reveal target" is a decent generic name for the concept, though.)
I agree, "reveal target" is about a generic for any system as you could go... I have described it as "Player Character" or "Character level Reveal" because this is the verbiage Rob used when it was discussed years ago.... so was talking apples to apples based on who is defining how RW will work.

To be truely system neutral, IMO, your "reveal target" fits perfectly.

It's a shame that this has not moved forward in years even though (as you state elsewhere) RW already has some of the core coding within its structure already....

D&D> Pre 1e White Box Edition, 1e, 2e, 3.5 Currently, Set in the World of Greyhawk (The first, longest running and Best Campaign Setting)
Software>Extensive use of all forms of MS Products, Visual Studio 2012, DAZ 3d, AutoCAD, Adobe Products.
Gaming Specific>Campaign Cartographer, D20 Pro Alpha & BattleGrounds Beta Tester, World Builder, Dungeon Crafter, LWD Hero Lab, Realm Works, Inkwell Ideas Citybuilder & Dungeon Builder, Auto-Realm, Dundjinni
Contributing Writer for TSR, WOC, & Canonfire
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Dark Lord Galen
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Old August 2nd, 2017, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by nodice View Post
..................
Beyond individual player reveal, which is essentially a requirement for any pvp campaign worth its name, individual entity reveal would allow RW to handle some very useful scenarios, such as the following;

One player playing multiple characters, each with unique memories.

A character changing from player-controlled to GM-controlled, and vice versa.

A dedicated mechanism, similar to relations, for any entity 'being aware' of another entity, eg, a guild learning of the existence of a bounty.

Some of these things might seem like overly burdensome bookkeeping to some people, but for games where not all players are 'on the same team' they allow for much deeper gameplay options.
Spot on point Australia and For Exactly these reasons.....

D&D> Pre 1e White Box Edition, 1e, 2e, 3.5 Currently, Set in the World of Greyhawk (The first, longest running and Best Campaign Setting)
Software>Extensive use of all forms of MS Products, Visual Studio 2012, DAZ 3d, AutoCAD, Adobe Products.
Gaming Specific>Campaign Cartographer, D20 Pro Alpha & BattleGrounds Beta Tester, World Builder, Dungeon Crafter, LWD Hero Lab, Realm Works, Inkwell Ideas Citybuilder & Dungeon Builder, Auto-Realm, Dundjinni
Contributing Writer for TSR, WOC, & Canonfire
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kbs666
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Old August 2nd, 2017, 10:03 AM
A further point in favor of individual reveal is it would greatly simplify multiple parties being run in one realm. Extreme steps, such as copying the realm or maintaining a master realm and one copy for each party would not necessarily be required.

Players, assuming they had some sort of character specific log in, would see only what their party/character knows and not what their other character/party knows.

I'll repeat what I've said before, this is one of the features that would greatly enhance RW's usability. It should be as high a priority as anything except the CM.

my Realm Works videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZU...4DwXXkvmBXQ9Yw
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nodice
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Old August 3rd, 2017, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by kbs666 View Post
I'll repeat what I've said before, this is one of the features that would greatly enhance RW's usability. It should be as high a priority as anything except the CM.
Amen to that!
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Old August 4th, 2017, 03:03 AM
I think the need for custom calendars so we can keep track of timelines properly is almost equal, at the top of the list though.
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Parody
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Old August 4th, 2017, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Galen View Post
I have described it as "Player Character" or "Character level Reveal" because this is the verbiage Rob used when it was discussed years ago.... so was talking apples to apples based on who is defining how RW will work.
There's no reason not to unless you plan to use it in other ways. If/when they actually add it I'm expecting it to be called some variant of Character Reveal because most GMs will use it for their PCs.

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