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kbs666
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Old February 7th, 2017, 02:22 AM
Keep in mind that when WotC launched 5e they announced it would include its own proprietary character tracker and GM aide software that promptly blew up and got canceled. There may be a feeling at WotC that LWD is a PF company and they want there own software not anything to do with Paizo. Tack on the stunning lack of understanding of the modern RPG market, no PDF's of your core offerings? really?, and I really would be shocked to see WotC be an early adopter of something like RW.

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daplunk
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Old February 7th, 2017, 02:24 AM
Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds both have licenses now which leads me to believe options are on the table.

They keep getting burnt when they try to do software themselves and then they need to maintain and support it. All things that havn't worked so well for their business model.

I suspect that new digital division will put alot of focus on Magic. That's the money bag for them and if someone else has already spent many many years in development I suspect they will now go with a license option.

The DMsGuild is another example of a solid 3rd party solution that is doing great things for them.

They appear to be open to creating new relationships if the product is right.

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Parody
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Old February 7th, 2017, 05:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gord View Post
As a seller of those print copies through my store, I'm not overly thrilled either. It is very FLGS unfriendly. It is sad but I know many retailers who have supported Pathfinder through the years, are now dumping the line because of their on-line policies. I won't do it but we have certainly reduced our numbers drastically.
What's changed recently? Paizo's subscription program has been around for a very long time: "Buy the books direct from us at a discount, get the PDF with it, sell the physical book whenever you want and still have the content. Oh, and have a discount on anything else you happen to buy from us." That's never been friendly towards stores. :(

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meek75
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Old February 7th, 2017, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by daplunk View Post
It take's me about 3-4 months of solid hard work to put a full sized WOTC module into Realm Works... My time is worth around that much.
This is obviously a personal choice, but I think the choice depends on several variables. I am getting ready for my first PF game in years. We are starting Kingmaker in two weeks. There is no reason to think Kingmaker will be in the CM, so this doesn't really effect me right now. However, I will admit that the price points are high enough to make me really pause and consider what I will be paying for on the CM. I tend to enter things in RW as I am playing the game. So, I enter the info for a few sessions at a time usually. This does take some time, but it also allows me to organize as I see fit and I gain valuable familiarity with the material via entering it. I was expecting the cost to be roughly equal to what a PDF runs me (that may not have been reasonable, but true nevertheless), so this is a bit of a shock. Honestly, some of this depends how they break it up. If I can spend $25 every couple of months to get the materiel I need, I can see doing it. If I have to buy the whole AP in one chunk for $100+ I might not. Short sighted of me? Perhaps, but the monthly budget only has so much in it for RPG stuff. Also, we don't yet know what cloud service will cost. So, that $25 a month might end up being nearly twice that. Regardless of how reasonable the prices are, I am only willing to pay so much.

I kind of hope that they will produce some original content that is system neutral. I have high hopes for the player created content that is coming down the pike. Give me a great story that is well organized and I can add the mechanical bits. If I can pick up a solid RW module for under $15 I would certainly do it.
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Merion
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Old February 7th, 2017, 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meek75 View Post
This is obviously a personal choice, but I think the choice depends on several variables. I am getting ready for my first PF game in years. We are starting Kingmaker in two weeks. There is no reason to think Kingmaker will be in the CM, so this doesn't really effect me right now. However, I will admit that the price points are high enough to make me really pause and consider what I will be paying for on the CM. I tend to enter things in RW as I am playing the game. So, I enter the info for a few sessions at a time usually. This does take some time, but it also allows me to organize as I see fit and I gain valuable familiarity with the material via entering it. I was expecting the cost to be roughly equal to what a PDF runs me (that may not have been reasonable, but true nevertheless), so this is a bit of a shock. Honestly, some of this depends how they break it up. If I can spend $25 every couple of months to get the materiel I need, I can see doing it. If I have to buy the whole AP in one chunk for $100+ I might not. Short sighted of me? Perhaps, but the monthly budget only has so much in it for RPG stuff. Also, we don't yet know what cloud service will cost. So, that $25 a month might end up being nearly twice that. Regardless of how reasonable the prices are, I am only willing to pay so much.

I kind of hope that they will produce some original content that is system neutral. I have high hopes for the player created content that is coming down the pike. Give me a great story that is well organized and I can add the mechanical bits. If I can pick up a solid RW module for under $15 I would certainly do it.
I share your approach. I'm far more interested in player created content than affical packages. Just give me a well-defined tavernkeeper to drop in when I short on time and need one and let me build my world and adventures for myself.

But for the folks who use modules a lot, this sucks, quite honestly. And no, I don't think this is LWD's fault. They probably shaved down their own profits as much as possible, but still...

As you say, one has only so much in his/her monthly budget for leisure stuff and I do have other costly hobbies (PC Games, skiing, going out drinking, and so forth), so I can't spent all of it for this. I already just sank nearly 100$ for HeroLab Licenses - it improved my performance at the game table, but I don't like to think about how many beers and pizzas that would have bought me.

Also, the image packs are also a bit pricy. I know artist want to live too, but 5 bucks for 10-15 images? If I'm really in a hurry, okay. But if you use it only for private games, there's sites like deviantart and artstation where you can find awesome stuff to use.

So, yeah, I'll keep creating my own adventures or filling in and adapting old things from my collection of Dungeon magazines. And if the community creates some nice things, I'll happily throw a little coin in their direction.
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Gord
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Old February 7th, 2017, 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parody View Post
What's changed recently? Paizo's subscription program has been around for a very long time: "Buy the books direct from us at a discount, get the PDF with it, sell the physical book whenever you want and still have the content. Oh, and have a discount on anything else you happen to buy from us." That's never been friendly towards stores. :(
Even with that going on, we would still order and sell 12-24 of any new release. It was outselling 4e in most stores. 5e reduced those numbers but not significantly. The condescending attitude, the humble bundle test (which they promised us there would only be one of), the proliferation of SKUs, and general on-line discounting they do have alienated stores even more than the subscriptions. They were not really a big issue. It is more the constant undermining of retail that have driven retailers away from them.

I have no problem with a joint publication of pdfs and books sold at retail. We have participated for years and I personally with that more companies would do it this way. I want the book for looking at and reading off-screen and the pdfs to search for things quickly and for data entry into RW.
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AEIOU
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Old February 7th, 2017, 11:02 AM
The prices are very steep IMNSHO. Alas, the hobby is small and RW base even smaller, so selling 10@$100 may make more sense to them than 1000@$10. People still buy $60 video games but a lot of indie companies with a LOT less investment and overhead make millions pricing themselves at $5-10.

They have one chance to do it right. I wish LWD luck. I'm underwhelmed.
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kbs666
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Old February 7th, 2017, 12:26 PM
I've been giving some serious thought to this announcement today. I think LWD is seriously missing the mark.

Yes, they need to sell full packaged adventures for those GM's that desire that. BUT the present fan base of RW is mostly not people who do that. And those GM's are more interested in AP's than in stand alone modules so they aren't going to attract new customers except with Emerald Spire and Razor Coast.

I think they would have been well served to find one or more of the small publishers who make things like this:
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/...The-Bear-PFRPG
(an example only I am not recommending this product)

Which would be an easy conversion to RW and be the sort of low cost "drop in" product many existing users of RW desire.

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Acenoid
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Old February 7th, 2017, 01:20 PM
Those who bought books in the past will buy books in the future. I have a large collection of books here and I dont wanna miss them. Its something different to go though a book than to skim over a pdf (imho)

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Merion
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Old February 7th, 2017, 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbs666 View Post
I've been giving some serious thought to this announcement today. I think LWD is seriously missing the mark.

Yes, they need to sell full packaged adventures for those GM's that desire that. BUT the present fan base of RW is mostly not people who do that. And those GM's are more interested in AP's than in stand alone modules so they aren't going to attract new customers except with Emerald Spire and Razor Coast.

I think they would have been well served to find one or more of the small publishers who make things like this:
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/...The-Bear-PFRPG
(an example only I am not recommending this product)

Which would be an easy conversion to RW and be the sort of low cost "drop in" product many existing users of RW desire.
While I personally agree wholeheartily and am one of the RW users who absolutely prefer small drop-ins to large modules, we shouldn't forget that forums are usually populated by a vocal minority. So we're like a focus feedback group, but we can only guess what their business numbers and surveys are telling LWD.

But yeah, a well populated market with lots of smaller content to choose from whenever you need a place or encounter will certainly look better and generate more revenue in the long run than one with just a handful of big modules.
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