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rob
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Old January 31st, 2015, 05:09 AM
@PetJe: To be honest, the dev team was also a little disappointed that calendars didn't make it into the top-3 of the survey. There's already a LOT of work invested in the underlying calendars mechanism, and we want to see it finished. The reality is that there are some things that are much more important than calendars in the eyes of most users, and the survey has pin-pointed those things for us. So we'll get those into place first and then finish up the calendars after that.
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weogarth
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Old January 31st, 2015, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seregil View Post
Oh dear God!

Everybody get your body armour, the Calendars are not in the top three. The End is Nigh! :-)
This was indeed disappointing, but I can't argue LWD's methodology. I guess Chemlak and I should have spent more money on bumper stickers and yard signs.

I will now be urging progress on the top 3 so as to get to #5 faster. I'm heartened by the dev team's desire to work on them as well. I'm picturing a carrot on a stick here....

<soapbox>Might I also say I'm disappointed in some of the 'I'm taking my ball and going home' reactions of some of the people? RW has a lot to offer a lot of people, and I think it's abundantly clear we ALL use it slightly differently. I hope that those people, when asked by others about the product, are fair and say something like 'It is a good tool, but it wasn't for me and here's why' rather than petulantly trash it.</soapbox>

Thanks Rob, Liz and all the others on the team. Keep on keepin' on. You do good stuff.
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Chemlak
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Old January 31st, 2015, 07:05 AM
Looks like I get to remain Chief Calendar Champion for a while longer.

And you know something? I don't mind. The features we are getting at the top of the list are cool, and I want cool stuff in RW. I'm especially pleased that Journals are right up there (that should make my wife happy).

I knew that calendars were a "Marmite" feature (you either love it or hate it). And while I'm mildly disappointed that the lobbying everyone did for calendars didn't push it higher, top-5 placement is excellent.

Looking forward to what the future brings.

Chief Calendar Champion Chemlak

Join the unofficial Realm Works IRC channel! Join #realm-works
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Dark Lord Galen
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Old January 31st, 2015, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acenoid View Post
Thanks for the transparency with this, some good features are in the top three some stuff is postponed for some time. Looking forward for the 2016 survey
This made me laugh.... "selective transparency" is not transparent at all, and as to ANOTHER survey in the future, it is a poor business model to steer by. Especially with LWD talking from both sides of their mouth. "The survey will not dictate what gets worked on" (translation, unless it provides us an excuse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatJe View Post
I'm also dissapointed, that we won't see calenders in a while. It was mentioned as a "Key Realm Works Feature" in the kickstarter campaign and was very important to me.
disappointed doesn't even begin to describe it for me... It was a feature already "IN" when sold, then well "we" (LWD) weren't happy with it so its coming "soon", couple weeks, then months, now closing in on a year, and NOW well it didn't make the top three, so we wont be delivering on what we sold you, but its not out fault, its the communities??? SERIOUSLY???

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatJe View Post
I wouldn't say Realm Works is useless without it. But the more you work with it entering dates als text instead of calender entries, the more useless calender entries become. Who would rework the whole realm after this feature will come ... maybe ... sometimes
Well put, and I agree, the potential for a great product is there, but without CORE functions it is risky to consider its use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
@Nemesis: Clearly, you're one of the people for whom export is a deal-breaker. Going back to having to use three separate tools over the lack of export seems like a harsh alternative to me, but you've made your position clear. Unfortunately, the survey results place you in a small, but vocal, minority of the overall Realm Works user base. We have to prioritize our efforts to focus on what the vast majority of users want right now, and the results of the survey are compelling on the subject of export. It's unfortunate that your priorities don't mesh with those of most everyone else.

Edit for clarity: It's your fellow Realm Works users who put export near the bottom of the priority list. That's not where we had it on our list going into the survey. We're now calibrating our priorities to best satisfy the collective desires of our users.
oh please, it is convenient for you to say "its not our fault, its the communities", when you have on more occasions than I can count have said ""the survey will not dictate what order we work on things". which is it? (rhetorical)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
@PetJe: To be honest, the dev team was also a little disappointed that calendars didn't make it into the top-3 of the survey. There's already a LOT of work invested in the underlying calendars mechanism, and we want to see it finished. The reality is that there are some things that are much more important than calendars in the eyes of most users, and the survey has pin-pointed those things for us. So we'll get those into place first and then finish up the calendars after that.
SMH instead of making good on a feature you claimed was ALREADY there when you sold it. ITs not like the end user is asking for something extra here... and not speaking for anyone but myself, I simply expect features that I already PAID for. That in any world is not unreasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weogarth View Post
This was indeed disappointing, but I can't argue LWD's methodology. I guess Chemlak and I should have spent more money on bumper stickers and yard signs.
thanks for lightning the mood here as this is certain to be a dark thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weogarth View Post
I will now be urging progress on the top 3 so as to get to #5 faster. I'm heartened by the dev team's desire to work on them as well. I'm picturing a carrot on a stick here....
I won't, because it is blatantly obvious that LWD will do as they want, when they want. and make false promises along the way hoping to keep enough ears tickled to keep them afloat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weogarth View Post
<soapbox>Might I also say I'm disappointed in some of the 'I'm taking my ball and going home' reactions of some of the people? RW has a lot to offer a lot of people, and I think it's abundantly clear we ALL use it slightly differently. I hope that those people, when asked by others about the product, are fair and say something like 'It is a good tool, but it wasn't for me and here's why' rather than petulantly trash it.</soapbox>
I agree with this, I was (and am) always of the assessment that silence is consent. "Taking my ball" crowd amounts to the same thing, to leave when things aren't going well is to be silent... I wont be... its up to you LWD as to whether the vocal crowd that remains is positive or negative in their appraisal of you. Your business is at stake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weogarth View Post
<Thanks Rob, Liz and all the others on the team. Keep on keepin' on. You do good stuff.
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Exmortis
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Old January 31st, 2015, 08:05 AM
I would like to state first and foremost that I am both impressed and satisfied with the Survey results, not because my features are or are not in the queue, but because LWD choose I SAY AGAIN CHOOSE to give us, the owners and perspective owners a say in the future of Realm Works. I also want to thank LWD for being so open with the results, and how it will affect their development over 2015.

Second I would state my dismay at some of the results, however we have spoken and thus it shall be. Calendars will just have to wait. I will then spend this delayed time for profit, I will learn to embrace journals in that time.

Third I would post a great big thanks to the rest of the community here who posted like adults and took the results as they should, we the users and owners of RW being allowed to guide the development of that said tool. I am still unaware of this being done anywhere else to the level shown here. Love, hate or indifferent to the results do not change the fact WE are responsible for them, not Rob or LWD. /tip of the hat to LWD.

Fourth I am disheartened by posts that simply represent a childish kindergarten view of the world around them. Seriously, the masses haves spoken and stated that certain features are most important, like it or not, I have nothing but admiration for LWD for allowing us to be a part of that. If one cannot see past their own meagre existence, and understand what a profound opportunity we were given?

Fifth and maybe the most important after the first, I would thank everyone who took the time to fill out the survey, this is one of those rare opportunities that one must take advantage of when they are given it.... Even if you did not put calendars at the top.

Exmortis aka "Scott"
RW - Looks like a heal spell incoming
HL - Game Master/Designer
RPG Tools - Campaign Cartographer 3+, D20 Pro Ultimate
Real Life - IT Security
Hobby - Anything on water or ATV
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ibecker
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Old January 31st, 2015, 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parody View Post
I'm with you on exporting, though perhaps not as emphatic about it. :)
I feel the same. The more I use Realm Works, the more I like it - by and large, I think it's a great project, and it's getting better all the time.

Despite all that, to me, the ability to get my data out of the program is essential. I've been in the IT industry for 16+ years, and vendor lock-in gives me nightmares.

However, for now I'm willing to put my faith in LWD's assurances that the export capability will be added. Rob, Liz, & company are clearly working hard (even heroically, compared to other software development companies) to keep us involved in the process of development, and I think that they're doing an excellent job. From my perspective, they've earned a bit of faith.

-Ian
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Dark Lord Galen
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Old January 31st, 2015, 08:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemlak View Post
Looks like I get to remain Chief Calendar Champion for a while longer.

And you know something? I don't mind. The features we are getting at the top of the list are cool, and I want cool stuff in RW. I'm especially pleased that Journals are right up there (that should make my wife happy).

I knew that calendars were a "Marmite" feature (you either love it or hate it). And while I'm mildly disappointed that the lobbying everyone did for calendars didn't push it higher, top-5 placement is excellent.

Looking forward to what the future brings.
Like you my players (& wife) want the journal feature and I think its a good add, HOWEVER... Calendars were never an "add on feature" they are a feature that was sold as existing, not "coming soon".

And without the calendar the journal is simply a list. Even a 6 year old little girl writes:
Jan 31
Dear Diary,
blah blah blah

Without the date there is no way to determine the order of entries...
And without ALOT of work (As per Rob) utilizing the default Gregorian calendar won't convert dates to a new custom one when they come on line. Thus requiring a copious amount of rework I am unwilling to do.
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Exmortis
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Old January 31st, 2015, 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibecker View Post
I feel the same. The more I use Realm Works, the more I like it - by and large, I think it's a great project, and it's getting better all the time.

Despite all that, to me, the ability to get my data out of the program is essential. I've been in the IT industry for 16+ years, and vendor lock-in gives me nightmares.

However, for now I'm willing to put my faith in LWD's assurances that the export capability will be added. Rob, Liz, & company are clearly working hard (even heroically, compared to other software development companies) to keep us involved in the process of development, and I think that they're doing an excellent job. From my perspective, they've earned a bit of faith.

-Ian
You and I could sit upon the ground and tell sad tales of the death of kings. I am sure for weeks on end. However in my time I have learned to oft see the rotten apples in a barrel before jumping in and being a part of it. I see no such thing here, in fact so far? My experience has been nothing but positive with LWD and its community.

That started with Hero Lab and is extended here to Realm Works. So like you I have faith that eventually someday my work can be exported, so it does not even resonate with me as a big deal right now, as I am committed to using RW/HL/D20Pro for my foreseeable future, thus it will stay in there regardless.

Exmortis aka "Scott"
RW - Looks like a heal spell incoming
HL - Game Master/Designer
RPG Tools - Campaign Cartographer 3+, D20 Pro Ultimate
Real Life - IT Security
Hobby - Anything on water or ATV
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Dark Lord Galen
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Old January 31st, 2015, 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exmortis View Post
Second I would state my dismay at some of the results, however we have spoken and thus it shall be. Calendars will just have to wait. I will then spend this delayed time for profit, I will learn to embrace journals in that time.
....
While I agree with your post, I grow more skeptical. We have waited patiently (mostly) for LWD to make good on promise ... days, weeks , months, and in some cases (in herolab) YEARS. We have to take LWD "Word" that the survey results are as they describe, yet their track record is less than supportive of believing blindly. ITs "convenient" to say the results say xxxx when no one sees them.

As end-user / kickstarters and development team (ie LWD) we share a symbiotic relationship that is not (currently) symbiotic.

The goal of any company (and I speak from first hand knowledge working for a fortune 500) is to insure customer satisfaction, support the company business model, and provide a safe work environment for their employees.

I find community satisfaction & trust wavering as even the survey itself (let alone the results it produced) is not accessible. This is not "transparent". And as a "partner" (as Rob described us once), I find the lack of true transparency "disturbing" and if "we" are a team, you have displayed a lack of faith in us to share such information.

No one is asking "did the Dark Lord vote this way or that" Surely the resulting data showed percentages against each question that you based your modulus on? Utilizing an independent survey source was smart in several ways,
  • why build what others already have,
  • but I would further this by adding sharing the cumulative results doesn't reveal who said what or risk proprietary on LWD's end either.
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Dark Lord Galen
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Old January 31st, 2015, 09:01 AM
Lastly,
I have retorted to others posts, now one of my own....
I sit here even now with players at my table, we tried, with varied success at expanding the use of Realm Works last night to all players at the table, After multiple -200, -300, -500 errors and re-installs and re-re-install- and re-re-re-installs all but one of the machines finally sync'd. ( will have player submit a bug report on that one momentarily) I have labeled the use of RW at our table as "Charlie testing". Meaning its already gone thru a beta test (questionable), but still has some features and "smoothness" missing. They accept that.

Upon reading your "Update" of features to come and the fact it took nearly 20hrs to install (on 4 machines) the reception was less that positive.

I quote feedback from players:
  • I see a lot of interesting and helpful things that the program "could" do, if it were not so buggy.
  • I like what I see, but I can't trust that my data will still be there if it crashes or if LWD goes away? I'll stick to MS Word
  • I find the notes useless for journal entry, and if there are no calendars, how will the journal be any different?
  • It takes forever to sync
  • As a herolab user, LWD has made promises for years now that we are still waiting for.
  • Seems like they cant keep their promises.
  • People expect to get what they are promised.
  • Why take a survey if they don't share the results and do as they want?
  • Why don't they tell everyone what is currently being worked on and what is in the backlog with a start date?
  • Its a waste of our table time, it has taken so much time this week it should have had its own set of dice at the table.
  • Its to the point that you either make fun of it or something just to keep from being angry
That is just an off the cuff right now... Well its game time and we will be doing it W/O realmworks because there is simply too many missing pieces to begin the puzzle.

I will continue to utilize it as an electronic file cabinet, but its usability for the player at table is QUESTIONABLE at best.

Last edited by Dark Lord Galen; January 31st, 2015 at 09:06 AM.
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