How long, Really?

[Lyvean]

The web version is keeping RW for being useful to players. Players can't remember all the details of the world, but being able to pop into web view into their tablets and check the lore of a place or any other info they need instead of the DM always telling them what they know and what they don't would make the game much more fluid and organic.

Also, it is fair to say that RW development has been a big disappointment. No content market, no calendars, no export functions and so many logical improvements needed and yet we have seen very little. I was never a kickstarter backer - I didn't know it existed- but as a customer I am quite disappointed. Imagine the people that have been here from the beginning.

I feel for the devs, it is not an easy job, that is certain. But the whole management of development and marketing has been really, really bad.

[kbs666]

Originally Posted by Lyvean

Also, it is fair to say that RW development has been a big disappointment. No content market, no calendars, no export functions and so many logical improvements needed and yet we have seen very little. I was never a kickstarter backer - I didn't know it existed- but as a customer I am quite disappointed. Imagine the people that have been here from the beginning.

I feel for the devs, it is not an easy job, that is certain. But the whole management of development and marketing has been really, really bad.

LWD is a very small company supporting 3 software products. RW is a completely new and truly innovative program. Of course deployment of new features is going to take time.

What we have now is a very usable and useful product. I use it every week for my game and it has cut my prep time for a session by at least half. The integration with HL and other features have made adventure design so much faster I'm not sure how to even quantify the difference. I know that it has been well over a year since I've needed to rush through the design of an encounter or such just to have material ready for that weeks game.

Yes, there are features I'd like to get eventually but I have a lot of trouble with people bashing RW as it is right now. Are you even using RW at all? How can you not love this program and the reduction in work load it has brought to running a campaign?

[wurzel]

Originally Posted by kbs666

LWD is a very small company supporting 3 software products. RW is a completely new and truly innovative program. Of course deployment of new features is going to take time.

I can't hear that kind of excuse any more. In such a case 99.99% of software companies around the world either hire new developers or freelancers. That is certainly no good solution dealing with a 3-month project but in the case of RW the waiting time is measured in years.

In my opinion Lyvean is right. This is bad management.

[kbs666]

Originally Posted by wurzel

I can't hear that kind of excuse any more. In such a case 99.99% of software companies around the world either hire new developers or freelancers. That is certainly no good solution dealing with a 3-month project but in the case of RW the waiting time is measured in years.

In my opinion Lyvean is right. This is bad management.

Have you not considered that LWD may not have the revenue to hire new developers?

The fact is that the user base for those 3 programs is miniscule. Therefore the revenue stream is small. That is clearly why they are putting so much effort into the CM. It will expand the number of people who will use RW and increase revenue.

I would rather have a company provide quality products slowly, HL is clearly the best character management tool around and RW is literally the only program of its kind, than have one that expands recklessly and goes out business leaving me with orphaned products.

[Silveras]

kbs666 and wurzel are both "right" in some ways.

RealmWorks is a new and innovative program. It has the potential to be a new publishing medium (though being a closed system has issues with scope there). It has offered many useful features from the initial public release, and made GMing easier for many.

But it has also suffered from mis-steps, primarily (as I see it) in overly-optimistic release plans. One person being in too many critical paths is another issue. LoneWolf has learned somewhat from these, and at least stopped giving concrete dates for releases before they are ready. That we still have "soon" not really meaning soon is an issue.

Clobbering the developers is not going to help, though. They are doing what they can with the resources they have. The messaging could be better, certainly... so that we don't get "coming soon" unless it really means in the short term (3-4 months at most, I'd say).

At this point, the "coming soon" credibility is shot. LoneWolf needs to be absolutely certain they can meet the next "coming soon" (as in, be ready to start the process the day the 'coming soon' announcement is made) in order to build that confidence back up.

I'd almost be ready to advise Rob to only announce the next "coming soon" when he has TWO releasable versions, each with demonstrable new features. Announce the first, and keep to its schedule. When he again has TWO releasable versions, announce what was the second.. and so on.. so as to always have one more finished, releasable version available in order to keep something like a schedule going.

[Viking2054]

Originally Posted by Silveras

kbs666 and wurzel are both "right" in some ways.

RealmWorks is a new and innovative program. It has the potential to be a new publishing medium (though being a closed system has issues with scope there). It has offered many useful features from the initial public release, and made GMing easier for many.

But it has also suffered from mis-steps, primarily (as I see it) in overly-optimistic release plans. One person being in too many critical paths is another issue. LoneWolf has learned somewhat from these, and at least stopped giving concrete dates for releases before they are ready. That we still have "soon" not really meaning soon is an issue.

Clobbering the developers is not going to help, though. They are doing what they can with the resources they have. The messaging could be better, certainly... so that we don't get "coming soon" unless it really means in the short term (3-4 months at most, I'd say).

At this point, the "coming soon" credibility is shot. LoneWolf needs to be absolutely certain they can meet the next "coming soon" (as in, be ready to start the process the day the 'coming soon' announcement is made) in order to build that confidence back up.

I'd almost be ready to advise Rob to only announce the next "coming soon" when he has TWO releasable versions, each with demonstrable new features. Announce the first, and keep to its schedule. When he again has TWO releasable versions, announce what was the second.. and so on.. so as to always have one more finished, releasable version available in order to keep something like a schedule going.

I agree that Realm Works has great potential. But as I see it, the biggest misstep is not the 'coming soon' announcements which are PR problems. The late change from RTF format to HTML format was a huge time sink that should of been implemented much sooner then it was. That should of become a top retrofit priority once they made the decision to implement a web version, in my opinion.

I think if people knew that LWD was sitting on an extra patch/release would just piss them off. You propose basically not releasing a patch until the next patch after that one was ready to also be released, holding one in reserve all the time. If I knew that was happening I'd be rather peeved. I'd much rather have a better monthly communication cycle where we are told what has been worked on, and its status, over the past month along with what is planned to be worked on over the next month. I think people would feel better if we knew a little bit more about what was going on. I don't need weekly updates, but I need better monthly communications then what comes in the monthly newsletter that covers all of LWD's products, of which I only use two products. In that regard, I am hoping the new communications person will help out significantly.

Personally, I'm in wait and see mode for RW, not necessarily because of problems or missing features in RW. My two main issues for not using the program significantly are personal. First, my gaming group is taking a sabbatical, so to speak and we haven't had a regular game in about a year. Second, as a GM for 25+ years, I'm burned out, frazzled, and uninspired to create a game world and the scenarios that go with it at the moment and so is the other major GM in my group.

[Silveras]

Originally Posted by Viking2054

I think if people knew that LWD was sitting on an extra patch/release would just piss them off. You propose basically not releasing a patch until the next patch after that one was ready to also be released, holding one in reserve all the time. If I knew that was happening I'd be rather peeved.

That's why I said "I'd almost be ready to advise..." It would be seen as somewhat dishonest.

[MNBlockHead]

If it wasn't for kickstarter and the promises made there, they would be under no obligation to give any updates--and I would prefer that they did not. No need to announce any new features until they release a new version.

I forget which exact items that were promised in the kickstarter are not in the current version (content market and specific content to be awarded and maybe calendars), but when they have finally get to the point where they have delivered what was promised to the KS backers, I hope we can move beyond this dysfunctional backer-developer relationship.

[Exmortis]

Just so every KSr here is aware of what exactly was promised:

Risks and challenges

Every project has risks, and software projects are notorious for delays. The key difference for Realm Works is that most of the work on Realm Works has already been completed, so there’s virtually no risk to product delivery.

Lone Wolf Development has been at the forefront of developing tabletop gaming software for over a decade. Our first product, Army Builder, had a profound impact on the tabletop miniatures arena and still reigns as the industry standard against which all other roster construction tools are compared. For RPGs, our Hero Lab product has won two ENnie Awards for Best Game Aid and is the most complete and powerful character management software for game systems including Pathfinder, Shadowrun, and many more. With Realm Works, we're simply taking things up another notch, and, as you can see in our video, we're already close to completion.

As with any software project, there is a chance that the release of Realm Works could be delayed, either due to problems on our part (a delay in hiring additional staff, for example) or because additional functionality is needed before the product is ready. This could impact the release of Realm Works to the public.

It’s also possible that we could face unexpected challenges in building Realm Works’ cloud capabilities. Building a multi-user server system is a lot of work and involves a lot of complexity. However, we've spent a lot of time coming up with a solid design for this, and have good tools to build it, so we’re confident that we can make this happen.

With your support, we can put the last building blocks in place and bring Realm Works to gamers everywhere!


This statement means, that their promises come with a statement that, they may slip, miss or not make any date they attempt.

So they have not missed nor broken a singe promise, as they are still working on RW. Better than so many other CF projects, you all have a working product in your hands, just missing a few key features, that are still being worked on.

Now do a search on how many such projects end up with it all spent blow, cars and hookers?

Suddenly things look pretty good here.

[Kathorus]

Just so every apologist here knows, it's getting just as tiresome to have complaints dismissed about a project that hasn't even delivered all of its key functionality after having been funded for three and a half years, as it is to see those complaints.