Calendar

[rob]

We've been proclaiming repeatedly that Player Edition is our top priority, so exactly how many people do you expect to see clamoring for it here? Probably not many. In fact, I believe that very few people will make a big deal out of Player Edition here on these forums because they know it's the next big thing that we're focusing on. So that fundamentally skews the results here and renders the data upon which you're basing your claims to be an inaccurate gauge.

If you take a look at various places OTHER than our forums here, the #1 negative comment about Realm Works is the lack of Player Edition. That data strongly supports the approach we're taking, which is to get Player Edition out first. The small amount of money we'll actually make on Player Edition won't even make a dent in our monthly development budget for Realm Works, so claims that this is a money grab are utterly without merit. However, getting Player Edition out will make a significant difference in how the product is generally viewed - right now, the product is often viewed as "incomplete" without Player Edition, and that's something we need to rectify ASAP.

Yes, calendars are a big desire for a lot of users, but I'm very certain that the number of people who want Player Edition is MUCH higher. They simply aren't screaming about it here because they know we're already working on it. That's the reason why Player Edition is our priority - and the only reason.

As for the small things we've been adding in the past few releases, they have been comparatively very fast and easy to implement, plus they have provided a lot of utility to the product. Most importantly, they have been things individual team members could work on while waiting for other team members to get pieces into place for Player Edition. There are lots of pieces to Player Edition, and not all of them can be done at the same time. So the team has worked on small, highly useful features during those short periods of otherwise "idle" time.

As can be seen on these forums, there is a HUGE range of preferences and wants for the features we implement next. Calendars are clearly a big one, but they aren't the only big one. Calendars are also going to entail a hefty chunk of additional UI work and a nominal amount of backend work. As such, they are a task that will require the focus of multiple team members for some time. That's not something that can be done in parallel with other major tasks (like Player Edition), so calendars need to wait until they can become the major task we focus on. That's just the reality of having limited resources.

No other MAJOR tasks will be undertaken until we get Player Edition wrapped up over the next few weeks. We'll continue to make small enhancements as time allows, but Player Edition is our only major task right now. Once Player Edition is completed, we'll reassess the major tasks that stand before us. One of those tasks is calendars, but it's not the only one. There's also the fact that we could potentially complete many smaller tasks in the time it would take us to get calendars done, so all of that has to be weighed and considered.

To answer the question regarding when calendars will be available, I honestly don't know. I can safely say that work will not begin in earnest on calendars before Player Edition is released, and it could very well be later than that, depending on the reassessment we'll be doing at that point to determine which tasks are next on the list. Calendars is a strong contender, but it has competition.

I'm sure this isn't the answer some of you are seeking, but it's the truth. Once Player Edition is released, we'll determine the next task(s) we focus on and let everyone know what's coming. Until it gets officially promoted to the top of the development task list, there is no timetable regarding calendars.

[wyrm]

Hi,
that is good answer and I greatly understand. My players are somehow curious about that player edition and it is major task.
So finish it and there will be calendar as one of next tasks.
Thanks for support on this.
Could it be interesting to make some sort of kickstarter or other funding after you finish player edition to have some money for next tasks (e.g. calendar) ??

[AEIOU]

If Kickstarter can create time or provide programmers that are already up-to-speed, I'm sure they'd be all over it.... Money is always good but I don't think it's the limiter right now.

[Chemlak]

I'm probably one of the biggest proponents of the calendar feature that you'll find around these parts (I've said before, I'm not going to shut up about it until someone at LWD tells me to), because I have a complex campaign timeline that I'm almost desperate to get into the correct calendar format (seriously, it was the time travel. I shouldn't have included the time travel. That's my downfall).

I consider the Calendar to be my number one priority for Realm Works.

But I'd put good money down that my players would like being able to access the campaign details themselves as their number one priority.

My regular players outnumber me three to one. I expect most groups have at least that many players. So, just to pull some numbers out of my backside - if RW sells to 1,000 GMs, that's 3,000+ players who are likely to have an interest in RW:PE. That's a pretty significant user-base, which is vastly in excess of the GM user-base, no matter how you spin the numbers.

Or, to put it another way, the market for RW:PE is around three times the size of the market for the all-up version of RW (we need an abbreviation to differentiate it from PE - RW:GM, perhaps? [Edit: Aaaaand just found a post by Joe who used exactly that abbreviation a few hours ago]) which includes a calendar.

Yes, the calendar is a nice-to-have, and yes, I consider it to be more important than RW:PE. But I'm perfectly happy to acknowledge that what I want isn't necessarily what's best for RW, my players, or LWD. So I'm not going to argue with design priority and management decisions that will make my players happy before I get the feature I want.

[Dark Lord Galen]

1st THANKS to ROB for not only giving us a response to the calendar, but an impromptu unvarnished unpublished update.
I will limit my comments (as much as I can) to the thread (ie Calendar) and defer all else to the new thread I created.

Originally Posted by rob

We've been proclaiming repeatedly that Player Edition is our top priority, .....

In fact, I believe that very few people will make a big deal out of Player Edition here on these forums because they know it's the next big thing that we're focusing on. So that fundamentally skews the results here and renders the data upon which you're basing your claims to be an inaccurate gauge.If you take a look at various places OTHER than our forums here, the #1 negative comment about Realm Works is the lack of Player Edition. That data strongly supports the approach we're taking, which is to get Player Edition out first. [/QUOTE]
Perhaps the view is skewed but perhaps not (see http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=49856 for a more concise rebuttal since this thread is pertaining to calendars) or the focus could be driven by the commitments made in the Kickstarter (and can understand that reasoning as well)

Originally Posted by rob

The small amount of money we'll actually make on Player Edition won't even make a dent in our monthly development budget for Realm Works, so claims that this is a money grab are utterly without merit.

Glad to hear, but sometimes its nice to he heard from "the horse's mouth" as they say in my part of the world. (ie the MAN)

Originally Posted by rob

Yes, calendars are a big desire for a lot of users, but I'm very certain that the number of people who want Player Edition is MUCH higher. They simply aren't screaming about it here because they know we're already working on it. That's the reason why Player Edition is our priority - and the only reason..

We as the community don't get the level of feedback from multiple sources, ie forums, various CONs, partnered companies, etc... so without your "feedback" and sources, we have only the forum here, which even your own website and Facebook defer the world to.

Originally Posted by rob

As for the small things we've been adding in the past few releases, they have been comparatively very fast and easy to implement, plus they have provided a lot of utility to the product. Most importantly, they have been things individual team members could work on while waiting for other team members to get pieces into place for Player Edition. There are lots of pieces to Player Edition, and not all of them can be done at the same time. So the team has worked on small, highly useful features during those short periods of otherwise "idle" time.

+1 for Multitasking

Originally Posted by rob

As can be seen on these forums, there is a HUGE range of preferences and wants for the features we implement next.

True, and while its easy to wish for the moon, its another to plan the trip.... perhaps Liz could set up a polling to at least be a weather vane of other features and there importance to the community?

Originally Posted by rob

Calendars are clearly a big one, but they aren't the only big one. Calendars are also going to entail a hefty chunk of additional UI work and a nominal amount of backend work. As such, they are a task that will require the focus of multiple team members for some time. That's not something that can be done in parallel with other major tasks (like Player Edition), so calendars need to wait until they can become the major task we focus on. That's just the reality of having limited resources.

Yep, and concur with you can only do what you have the resources for (thanks for the candid feedback there)
Although I am personally confused, on the release of the RW Kickstarter the calendar was listed as "nearly complete" even the beta testers have seen it... where did it digress so from "nearly complete" to " what sounds like total rebuild?

Originally Posted by rob

To answer the question regarding when calendars will be available, I honestly don't know. I can safely say that work will not begin in earnest on calendars before Player Edition is released, and it could very well be later than that, depending on the reassessment we'll be doing at that point to determine which tasks are next on the list. Calendars is a strong contender, but it has competition.

Originally Posted by rob

I'm sure this isn't the answer some of you are seeking, but it's the truth. Once Player Edition is released, we'll determine the next task(s) we focus on and let everyone know what's coming. Until it gets officially promoted to the top of the development task list, there is no timetable regarding calendars.

Again, as you say, may not be the answer hoped for, but is the unvarnished facts from the top of the mountain... can't ask for more than that... thanks for conveying.

[ruhar]

Originally Posted by rob

To answer the question regarding when calendars will be available, I honestly don't know. I can safely say that work will not begin in earnest on calendars before Player Edition is released, and it could very well be later than that, depending on the reassessment we'll be doing at that point to determine which tasks are next on the list. Calendars is a strong contender, but it has competition.

I'm sure this isn't the answer some of you are seeking, but it's the truth. Once Player Edition is released, we'll determine the next task(s) we focus on and let everyone know what's coming. Until it gets officially promoted to the top of the development task list, there is no timetable regarding calendars.

Is there a thread that shows what's currently on the task list and the current, approximate order/priority? If we can see that Item A is on the list but Item B has top priority maybe it'll help us sit on our hands instead of posting "When wills." It could be glued to the top of the forum, made only readable by us users. As a bonus, an occasional update posted from LW of how it's going, why an item moved up or down, etc.

[Royas]

Personally, the player edition is not important to me at all, but I get that it is likely a pretty high priority to a LOT of other people. I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority. I'm just hoping we'll see the custom calendar made soon after, as that was one of the biggest selling points for Realm Works, and the reason I participated in the Kickstarter campaign instead of just waiting for it to be released.

I do understand that LWD has limited resources and can only work on so many things at a time, but that doesn't stop me from hoping.

[TheSleeper]

As a GM with 26 years playing under my belt I got to say that while I have a custom calendar that’s 15+ years old the calendar is something that is never the focus of gaming and in fact most players (I have played with) don’t care much about the calendar and more about just what is going on now.

When I made mine I drew up an actual calendar gave the months and days of the weeks names I then filled carefully different events lunar cycles seasons and a lot of other information. It was at the front of my world atlas book and it’s the section everyone always skipped to get to the game world information.

As a reference for a DM a calendar is a godsend being able to dates and such is very helpful but you can make a calendar in grid format that will work and put information in it rather easy to follow by till the calendar is released.

The player UI it is so far beyond that usability level to not even be comparable to a calendar. The ability to show the game world at any time to anyone and hand outs and to let the players look over plot information or text’s for clues not to mention the central information distribution system is far more important to me and I think most people.

I am going to starting a game on line in the next couple months, I think this is the case with many people that it is easier to get together even with people in your city over the internet then face to face. I think the industry has seen a shift from face to face RPGing to OTN-RPG in the last few years and for this the player UI is a massive thing second only to a database for the DM to put information.

[Maidhc O Casain]

That is an excellent point, and meshes with my own experiences. I've been waiting for the calendar to come out, and really wanting it to be sooner rather than later.

But in thinking about my experiences as a GM, my players generally are far more focused on the here and now than they are on the calendar and what's going on behind the scenes.

[Farling]

Whilst I'm keen to have an in-game Calendar, it is only to tag diary/journal entries. I've no interest in linking calendars together, I just want to be able to enter a date into RW in a "world calendar" format.