Help with a 2E power build please....

[atlarman]

Hi all

I am wondering if anyone can help me figure out how to do this in HL, i'm trying to incoperate a flamethrower-like effect into my character's device...after reading through the powers section I decide "blast"w/a "fire" discriptor is and a cone area extra are my best bets. as "element control" as written states you can only direct and shape the said element.

The problem comes in with the range of blast being "ranged" i figured for balance and more realism the range should be "extended" but just 1 rank thus giving a fixed range of 10 ft.
however i discover in HL upon trying to do this that i can only add 1 rank of the range extra(giving perception range) instead of the 2 ranks i need for extended range . is there a way around this?/or perhaps another way to achieve a flat 10' range??

[Nigel Fogg The Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by atlarman

Hi all

I am wondering if anyone can help me figure out how to do this in HL, i'm trying to incoperate a flamethrower-like effect into my character's device...after reading through the powers section I decide "blast"w/a "fire" discriptor is and a cone area extra are my best bets. as "element control" as written states you can only direct and shape the said element.

The problem comes in with the range of blast being "ranged" i figured for balance and more realism the range should be "extended" but just 1 rank thus giving a fixed range of 10 ft.
however i discover in HL upon trying to do this that i can only add 1 rank of the range extra(giving perception range) instead of the 2 ranks i need for extended range . is there a way around this?/or perhaps another way to achieve a flat 10' range??

First off, I think you are 100% to have a fire descriptor. I also note that you want it at Rank 5.

Having it ranged means the "cone of fire" can have it's origin point "over there" (50 ft range increments (to be taken into consideration if the GM wants a Ranged Attack Roll to place the Origin Point in the hex desired thus the culmulative -2 could come into play), with the maximum distance away from the character for the origin point being 500 ft (and if the GM is calling for it, a -18 penalty to hit the hex due to the extra 9 increments of range)) when you really want the cone to start at your character...since it sounds like you want a realistic flamethrower. So, first I'd suggest either putting the Power Flaw: Range on it to knock it down to Touch OR what I think would be a more accurate solution, instead of Blast you base it off of Damage (U.P. page 38 - specifically the Area write-up).

Unfortunately, while this will have the Cone start at your character as desired, the length will still be shown on screen/the sheet as greater than what you desire due to the M&M game mechanic. I'd suggest having a Custom Power Flaw stating that the Cone doesn't go farther than two hexes (aka 10 ft) from the character instead of the 10 hexes (length) it would normally affect. Up to the GM if this would only be worth -1pp/rank or if it should be valued at -2pp/rank or be a mean GM and say it is just a straight-up -1pp Power Drawback.

Just my two cents worth,
Nigel Fogg, aka The Wayfarer.

[atlarman]

Thanks Nigel ... ill give that a try....i still cant believe a person couldnt do and extended range extra at 1 rank. lol

[Nigel Fogg The Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by atlarman

Thanks Nigel ... ill give that a try....i still cant believe a person couldnt do and extended range extra at 1 rank. lol

Well, I obviously didn't have my thinking cap on because I completely forgot about the Power Feat: Decrease Area Extra.

Buy 4 levels of that Power Feat and you can reduce the AoE Cone to rank 1. Since all Power Feats, unlike Power Extras, have the option of being used or not used with each application of the power, you simply have to "forget" to use the the Cone at the full 50 ft. length.

Nigel Fogg, aka The Wayfarer

[Duggan]

The penalty for decreased area for greater effects is by design. According to Steve Kenson, areas become larger as they become more powerful, also meaning that unleashing a full-power attack becomes more difficult without causing collateral damage. On the boards, the house rule suggestion has been made periodically to allow for a +0 Extra to set the area at a lower value to emulate a blast which is naturally smaller and therefore cannot be expanded without adding additional feats. It's all up to how much you feel the reduced area changes the situation.

Extended Range only works on touch-range powers. Here, it would let you start the cone up to 5 feet out. Dunno if that's what you intend.

[atlarman]

to nigel-

ha thanks for the decreased area thing i went back and used this..... however... hl does not seem to take into account the new area in its printout lol something to bring to colen's attn i guess.

As a side note.... if it were not for the cone area....extended reach 2 woulda WORKED PERFECTLY! who knew fire could be so complicated eh?? lol

[atlarman]

@ duggan um dont ya mean extended reach is for touch range powers?? it would make more sense to say extended range is for effects already w/at least ranged range and extended reach is for touch range attacks. unless im totally missing something.
Which is possible lol

[Nigel Fogg The Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by atlarman

to nigel-

ha thanks for the decreased area thing i went back and used this..... however... hl does not seem to take into account the new area in its printout lol something to bring to colen's attn i guess.

As a side note.... if it were not for the cone area....extended reach 2 woulda WORKED PERFECTLY! who knew fire could be so complicated eh?? lol

I too thought at first that it might be a "bug" that the Cone's area still reads as 50 ft.

However, the fact that a Power Feat, unlike a Power Extra, doesn't have to be in effect with every use of the Power, the software has no way of knowing when the PF is "on" or "off."

So it makes sense to me to have the printout display the "full" extent of the power just in case the player decides to turn "off" the PF: Decreased Area Extra when his character uses it. Now is that what Colen & the gang were thinking when they wrote the software? I dunno.

Nigel Fogg, aka The Wayfarer

[Nigel Fogg The Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by atlarman

@ duggan um dont ya mean extended reach is for touch range powers?? it would make more sense to say extended range is for effects already w/at least ranged range and extended reach is for touch range attacks. unless im totally missing something.
Which is possible lol

LOL I have been trying very hard today to not climb onto my "range" soapbox today. I can see I'm doomed to return to this topic later this evening since Colen didn't fix it in the latest Beta version.

Anyway, Power Feat: Extended Reach is only for Touch-ranged Powers. PF: Improved Range increases the range increment and PF: Progression, Increase Range increases the maximum range of any Power.

Duggan is completely correct that you can use PF: Extended Reach if you buy your flamethrower as Damage (page 38 of Ultimate Power) with AoE: Cone and not as a Blast with AoE: Cone.

Nigel Fogg, aka The Wayfarer.

[Nigel Fogg The Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by Duggan

The penalty for decreased area for greater effects is by design. According to Steve Kenson, areas become larger as they become more powerful, also meaning that unleashing a full-power attack becomes more difficult without causing collateral damage. On the boards, the house rule suggestion has been made periodically to allow for a +0 Extra to set the area at a lower value to emulate a blast which is naturally smaller and therefore cannot be expanded without adding additional feats. It's all up to how much you feel the reduced area changes the situation.

Extended Range only works on touch-range powers. Here, it would let you start the cone up to 5 feet out. Dunno if that's what you intend.

For one campaign I am in, my GM seems to think (talking 2E rules here) that a General-type AoE makes things too easy for us so, as a House Rule, it costs double (so we add a Custom Power Extra citing the HR. This has somewhat backfired as the two "worst offenders" - myself and his wife - don't mind lowering the Power Rank of our attacks in order to offset the increase cost since those attack modes are very much in keeping with our character concepts and we don't mind that we will sometimes be frustrated by our team mates rushing into the line of fire....and sometimes we'll light them up too....hey, they were warned it could happen. lol) he doesn't consider the possible collateral damage a factor since that is never really addressed in our games. He allows the Targeted-type of AoE to be normal cost. *shrug* Yet in another campaign he allows both General and Targeted to be "by the book" cost but disallows the Power Feats: Progression, Increase AoE Area Extra and Progression, Decrease AoE Area Extra.

I have no idea how he's going to react to the way 3E, unless I've missed something, makes all AoE the General-type as it had been pre-Ultimate Power.

Nigel Fogg, aka The Wayfarer