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pauljathome
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 7

Old September 6th, 2017, 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
A large contingent of gamers react negatively to change.
Do you realize how incredibly arrogant this statement is? If we don't like your new plans we're just immature people who react negatively to change?

Its actually quite possible that we're not reacting negatively to change per se, but rather that we have issues with the changes themselves.

Speaking for myself, I do NOT like the subscription model. I also do not like requiring internet access. That isn't "reacting negatively to change".

Obviously, you have to do what you think is best for your business and I'll do what I think best in response to your plans. But do NOT just dismiss my concerns (because that is what you ARE doing) as "reacting negatively to change".

The rest of your post quite reasonably sets out some of your reasons and answers some of our questions (although it notably totally omits talking about my personal biggest issue, the subscription model). But by the time I got to it I was already pretty darned pissed off by your preamble.

Last edited by pauljathome; September 6th, 2017 at 07:37 AM.
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DeltaMasterMind
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 276

Old September 6th, 2017, 07:49 AM
Honestly the plans for HLO makes a lot of sense. Many folks don't really get "engines" and the power and size they can usually be. Letting the server do the work should give good response times for all devices, even the older mobile devices. Considering I have paid way more per month to do practically the same thing as I have done on many other online games (mostly MMOs), this business model is quite modest.

Rob, do you believe that in the future that Lone Wolf devs will be able to build a dynamic maptool that works in conjunction with HLO and Realm Works? I know this would have to wait until alot more work has been done and added to both products and likely more customers invested in both products, but I would love to see such a "software suite"!
I have plans (not in the near future, but as soon as life will allow) to implement a grand digital environment to the gaming table my gaming group uses and we already use laptops in place of paper for all our gaming needs. Currently though my friend and I each have accounts for HLC so we can incorporate all the players we have. I hope that HLO will have better packages available for licensing a large group.

Last edited by DeltaMasterMind; September 6th, 2017 at 07:53 AM.
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Paragon
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Old September 6th, 2017, 08:20 AM
Just to make it clear, Rob, I don't think you Colen and the rest of the decision-makers at LoneWolf are bad people for deciding this. I can see some very good reasons it makes sense for you.

It simply isn't beneficial for me, since I really don't want to be dependent on an online connection, and particularly, a third party for my game support functionality. Its the same reason I use Maptool rather than Roll20, and the only thing I don't run myself when GMing remotely is Skype (and I could do without that if I had to).

The fact that any new systems you support will be in HLO only means that, in practice, you're unlikely to get any more money from me, but that doesn't mean any animosity on my part; its just the practical reality of both our decisions.
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talsharien
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Leeds UK
Posts: 101

Old September 6th, 2017, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
From the FAQ:

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Q: What sort of functionality will there be for the creation of custom content and will this impact the community packs?

A: There should be an Editor in Online, just like there is in Classic, for adding new content.

Things get vastly more complicated with Online when it comes to sharing custom creations. We've got stuff mapped out, but it still needs refinement and there could be gotchas we haven't yet thought of. So we're not giving out concrete details until we're certain of everything.

Hope this helps a little,
Rob
Does this mean that with the online model custom built content will be shared from the GM's system.
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Toblakai
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 131

Old September 6th, 2017, 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljathome View Post
Do you realize how incredibly arrogant this statement is? If we don't like your new plans we're just immature people who react negatively to change?
I have found his statement to be very true of gamers, and it would refer to me also.. I resisted the change to D&D 4.0 and 5.0 and still do. Sometimes the truth hurts.
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pauljathome
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Old September 6th, 2017, 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljathome View Post
Do you realize how incredibly arrogant this statement is? If we don't like your new plans we're just immature people who react negatively to change?
I realized that I left one crucial bit of context out of my rant.

I was interested in getting Herolab support for Starfinder. Was disappointed by the fact that I'd have to use the new HLO for that. Telling me that the only reason I don't like HLO is because I'm afraid of change was not the right approach to mollify me :-). Its insulting and false.

As long as you actually continue to support HLC I don't really care what you do with HLO as its a product I won't be buying. I'll admit to being sceptical that ongoing support for HLC will continue at its current level (as you say, you're a very small company and when you don't have time to do everything I suspect that HLC is what will take the hit) but I'm certainly willing to wait and see.
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nylanfs
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Old September 6th, 2017, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljathome View Post
Do you realize how incredibly arrogant this statement is? If we don't like your new plans we're just immature people who react negatively to change?
That isn't fair, he didn't say that anyone was immature, just that they didn't like change. Which quite frankly a LOT of humans don't like change.

Edit: and I started to reply and then had to do some work stuff and then replied after you clarified.

Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
PCGen BoD - PR Silverback
Forums: Nylanfs (or Nylan)

Hero Lab Shadowrun 4E & 5e user

Last edited by nylanfs; September 6th, 2017 at 09:13 AM. Reason: Time delay reply
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Toblakai
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 131

Old September 6th, 2017, 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljathome View Post
As long as you actually continue to support HLC I don't really care what you do with HLO as its a product I won't be buying. I'll admit to being sceptical that ongoing support for HLC will continue at its current level (as you say, you're a very small company and when you don't have time to do everything I suspect that HLC is what will take the hit) but I'm certainly willing to wait and see.
Since HLC is currently paying all the bills, I suspect HLC will be supported for quite a while. If HLO starts making more money that HLC, then you might want to start getting worried about HLC, but that would probably need to be like 3:1 ratio or better before you should be concerned. {Speculation of course }
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EightBitz
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,023

Old September 6th, 2017, 11:52 AM
If we migrate to HLO, do we lose access to HLC? Is access to the two mutually exclusive?

Treasure to the Community
(No, really. Motion made, motion carried and motion passed.)

RWExport-To-HTML
Transforms .rwoutput files to HTML or Word.

RedactDescriptions
Redact descriptions from your authored and edited Hero Lab files.

Dresden Files RPG for Hero Lab
On GitHub. I never got around to doing this in a manner where you can add it as a source.
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EightBitz
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Old September 6th, 2017, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljathome View Post
Do you realize how incredibly arrogant this statement is? If we don't like your new plans we're just immature people who react negatively to change?

Its actually quite possible that we're not reacting negatively to change per se, but rather that we have issues with the changes themselves.

Speaking for myself, I do NOT like the subscription model. I also do not like requiring internet access. That isn't "reacting negatively to change".

Obviously, you have to do what you think is best for your business and I'll do what I think best in response to your plans. But do NOT just dismiss my concerns (because that is what you ARE doing) as "reacting negatively to change".

The rest of your post quite reasonably sets out some of your reasons and answers some of our questions (although it notably totally omits talking about my personal biggest issue, the subscription model). But by the time I got to it I was already pretty darned pissed off by your preamble.
He never said immature. He never said reacting negatively to change is unjustified or a bad thing. And he never said it was all gamers. He said it was a large contingent. In my experience, the statement is generally true. I know it's true of me.

Treasure to the Community
(No, really. Motion made, motion carried and motion passed.)

RWExport-To-HTML
Transforms .rwoutput files to HTML or Word.

RedactDescriptions
Redact descriptions from your authored and edited Hero Lab files.

Dresden Files RPG for Hero Lab
On GitHub. I never got around to doing this in a manner where you can add it as a source.
EightBitz is offline   #20 Reply With Quote
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