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View Poll Results: What Pathfinder Content Do You Want to See FIRST?
Essential Pathfinder Rulebooks Only (e.g. CRB, APG, ACG, UM, UC) 23 15.23%
All Pathfinder Rulebooks 12 7.95%
Bestiaries and Similar Books 6 3.97%
Modules and Smaller Adventures 7 4.64%
Adventure Paths and Huge Adventures 45 29.80%
Generally Reusable Content (e.g. NPCs, Artwork, Maps) 4 2.65%
Golarian Campaign Setting 10 6.62%
Player Companions 0 0%
Not interested in Pathfinder content 44 29.14%
Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

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Silveras
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Old October 18th, 2016, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Galymyr View Post
I'm going to have to go with the campaign setting. Admittedly I'm very very new to Realm Works but I'm not seeing the value in having the core Rulebooms in RW. I thought RW was supposed to help me manage the intricacies of the game world and all the interactions happening. How does having access to initiative rules in RW help me at all? Am I missing something really awesome about RW?
I think most people want things like Classes, Races, Feats, and such.. not so much Cover, Concealment, Initiative, etc. (although I did enter those in my Rise of the Runelords Realm).

And that, I suppose, exposes another slice of the question.. if you want Rules, do you want ALL Rules, or just selectable things like Classes, Races, and Feats?
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rob
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Old October 18th, 2016, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Silveras View Post
What is LoneWolf's position viz. Open Game License content?

Specifically, since it is (presumably) legal for any RealmWorks user to enter and re-publish all of the content on the Pathfinder Reference Document as a Realm... what is LoneWolf's expectation along that line?
We have a full license from Paizo for doing ALL Pathfinder material. So it's just a matter of prioritizing what we do first. An army of users will absolutely get stuff done faster than we can, but there's also the question of quality, consistency, accuracy, and quite a few other words ending in "y".

Any content that users create and share under the OGL is perfectly fine. And it can co-exist with anything we do. The two co-exist peacefully on the Hero Lab side. Lots of users will want the artwork (not OGL) and the "official" material that we've put the time and testing into. Lots of users will want to save some coin. There's a place for both.

The one big concern I have with our revised Content Market approach is that it may become "the Wild West" for a short time. The original CM model positioned us as sort of "curating" the available content, since users could not share content outside of our ecosystem. Without that chokepoint in place, I can see multiple users providing the same or overlapping material, and it could even become "competitive" on some level. That's going to be confusing (and very annoying) for everyone. So we (Lone Wolf) may have to become involved in the process to some extent. I'm just not sure how that will unfold yet.

This is something that I'm definitely losing sleep over these days, as it's going to have a qualitative impact on the overall experience for everyone. This is probably the one biggest drawback accompanying the revised plan, but we felt the pros far outweighed the cons, and it seems the user community agrees with that view. We're still working to figure out how best to handle this wrinkle.
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Silveras
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Old October 18th, 2016, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh View Post
Good question. That then naturally leads into the thought that if this starts to happen than we could end up with dozens of Pathfinder SRD by different community members. Unlike a wiki no way to work cooperatively "yet" on a single realm.

That seems like both a good and bad thing.
I imagine the differentiation would be along the lines of whose organization scheme is considered better, or at least more compatible with the buyer's style of play. It would likely lead to some very specialized packages... Core + PFS changes vs. Core + all non-world-specific books vs just Feats, Skills, Classes, etc. from all books... and so on,

LoneWolf, as licensors, could use the actual artwork from the books, which would be one differentiator for them. And some folks just feel better with the "official" version.. so that's another. PFS acceptance of an "official" Realm is unlikely, given that (as I understand) printed copies of PDF pages are required now (and the PDF itself is not accepted)... though that could change, I suppose.

If the re-packaging of Open Content is to be expected, then I would think that pushes the importance of the closed content... the Adventure text and the World-specific setting content... to the front of the priority list for LoneWolf.
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Silveras
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Old October 18th, 2016, 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
We have a full license from Paizo for doing ALL Pathfinder material. So it's just a matter of prioritizing what we do first. An army of users will absolutely get stuff done faster than we can, but there's also the question of quality, consistency, accuracy, and quite a few other words ending in "y".

Any content that users create and share under the OGL is perfectly fine. And it can co-exist with anything we do. The two co-exist peacefully on the Hero Lab side. Lots of users will want the artwork (not OGL) and the "official" material that we've put the time and testing into. Lots of users will want to save some coin. There's a place for both.

The one big concern I have with our revised Content Market approach is that it may become "the Wild West" for a short time. The original CM model positioned us as sort of "curating" the available content, since users could not share content outside of our ecosystem. Without that chokepoint in place, I can see multiple users providing the same or overlapping material, and it could even become "competitive" on some level. That's going to be confusing (and very annoying) for everyone. So we (Lone Wolf) may have to become involved in the process to some extent. I'm just not sure how that will unfold yet.

This is something that I'm definitely losing sleep over these days, as it's going to have a qualitative impact on the overall experience for everyone. This is probably the one biggest drawback accompanying the revised plan, but we felt the pros far outweighed the cons, and it seems the user community agrees with that view. We're still working to figure out how best to handle this wrinkle.
Thanks, Rob.

In a way, LoneWolf is pretty much in the position Adobe was in when Acrobat was premiered. A little-known product that offers a new medium for publication.

The difference is that RealmWorks is dependent upon the servers at LoneWolf. That's a more closed-system operation than PDFs were back then. That carries the responsibility to police the closed environment, as you mentioned; the opening up of that environment does have other risks.

Unlike Adobe, who "only" had to worry about establishing PDF as a standard, RealmWorks' consumers are bound to LoneWolf by that closed environment. The gaming market is niche enough that, even if RealmWorks becomes popular within that population, it is not like that is a large enough population (right now, anyway) to support an independent "hosting" environment.

So... fasten your seatbelts... it's going to be a bumpy ride.,

On the plus side, the OGL community has had some time to mature. You may see a few ambitious amateurs pop up, and some may even "make it big", but I'd like to think it won't be quite as wild as the past.
Silveras is offline   #24 Reply With Quote
Exmortis
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Old October 18th, 2016, 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob View Post
We have a full license from Paizo for doing ALL Pathfinder material. So it's just a matter of prioritizing what we do first. An army of users will absolutely get stuff done faster than we can, but there's also the question of quality, consistency, accuracy, and quite a few other words ending in "y".

Any content that users create and share under the OGL is perfectly fine. And it can co-exist with anything we do. The two co-exist peacefully on the Hero Lab side. Lots of users will want the artwork (not OGL) and the "official" material that we've put the time and testing into. Lots of users will want to save some coin. There's a place for both.

The one big concern I have with our revised Content Market approach is that it may become "the Wild West" for a short time. The original CM model positioned us as sort of "curating" the available content, since users could not share content outside of our ecosystem. Without that chokepoint in place, I can see multiple users providing the same or overlapping material, and it could even become "competitive" on some level. That's going to be confusing (and very annoying) for everyone. So we (Lone Wolf) may have to become involved in the process to some extent. I'm just not sure how that will unfold yet.

This is something that I'm definitely losing sleep over these days, as it's going to have a qualitative impact on the overall experience for everyone. This is probably the one biggest drawback accompanying the revised plan, but we felt the pros far outweighed the cons, and it seems the user community agrees with that view. We're still working to figure out how best to handle this wrinkle.
ME? I want bestiaries followed by rules, but only got one vote.

Rob,

I wouldn't lose sleep over this, it is absolutely going to be the wild west, but this will be the initial short term impact.

Your analogy to HL is valid and a good key way for everyone to see as the future of RW, after the initial rough patch settles down.

LWD's HL work is great, the communities work in HL superbly complimentary to it. That's how I envision RW in a year or so, people like Shadow leading the way for the community to rally around, like the RW Desert Rangers.

Exmortis aka "Scott"
RW - Game Master/Designer of custom game worlds
HL - Game Master/Designer
RPG Tools - Campaign Cartographer 3+, D20 Pro Ultimate.
Real Life - IT Project management and coordination.
Hobby - Anything on water or ATV.

My YouTube channel for Realm Works videos: Down, TBC at later date.
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daplunk
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Old October 18th, 2016, 03:42 PM
How will RW > HL integration be handled in situations where the *.user file has not been released to the user?

I know we can embed portfolios in RW but they still require the underlying *.user file to pre-exist in Hero Lab in order for the content to work.

Lets say a new monster book is released via RW. Does that then come with the HL user file? Will installation be possible on HL for the purchased content within RW?

Realm Works - Community Links
Realm Work and Hero Lab Videos
Ream Works Facebook User Group
Realm Works - Community Content List
CC3+ Facebook User Group

D&D 5e Community Pack - Contributor
General Hero Lab Support & Community Resources
D&D 5e Community Pack - Install Instructions / D&D 5e Community Pack - Log Fault / D&D 5e Community Pack - Editor Knowledge Base
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Exmortis
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Old October 18th, 2016, 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daplunk View Post
How will RW > HL integration be handled in situations where the *.user file has not been released to the user?

I know we can embed portfolios in RW but they still require the underlying *.user file to pre-exist in Hero Lab in order for the content to work.

Lets say a new monster book is released via RW. Does that then come with the HL user file? Will installation be possible on HL for the purchased content within RW?
Those are two different products with two different stores. So You would have to buy the product on both, or the 3PP doing the release would have to make both available I would think.

For my take, if I decided to share out my Daede campaign, it would include the Daede.user file I have created to support the campaign in HL. But I am not a publisher for money on it, it would be just a dude sharing his work for others to use if they so desired.

Exmortis aka "Scott"
RW - Game Master/Designer of custom game worlds
HL - Game Master/Designer
RPG Tools - Campaign Cartographer 3+, D20 Pro Ultimate.
Real Life - IT Project management and coordination.
Hobby - Anything on water or ATV.

My YouTube channel for Realm Works videos: Down, TBC at later date.
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daplunk
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Old October 18th, 2016, 03:53 PM
This is where I go back to some of my other comments in that Hero Lab and Realm Works need to become closer. One store, one cloud solution, one login that manages your license issues.

Given the two integrate it would not make sense to have to buy the content twice.

At this stage with my current understanding, the only way I would want to release Hero Lab portfolios would be content that is made using a custom monster race that is included in the core content. Then comparability would not be an issue.

Realm Works - Community Links
Realm Work and Hero Lab Videos
Ream Works Facebook User Group
Realm Works - Community Content List
CC3+ Facebook User Group

D&D 5e Community Pack - Contributor
General Hero Lab Support & Community Resources
D&D 5e Community Pack - Install Instructions / D&D 5e Community Pack - Log Fault / D&D 5e Community Pack - Editor Knowledge Base
daplunk is offline   #28 Reply With Quote
Daelda
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Posts: 60

Old October 18th, 2016, 04:53 PM
I don't play Pathfinder, BUT I DO use some of their adventures (slightly modified). I've done this sort of thing for over 30 years - taken adventures, NPCs, artwork, maps, etc, from other game systems and adapted them for the game system I am currently using.

Often, I have found that the one thing most lacking in many game systems is adventures and similar material. But if I can snag a Pathfinder, D&D, Warhammer or other adventure and tweak it just enough to fit the system I am using, I'm golden!

What this boils dow to is this - by starting with adventures, and building from there, you cater not just to the Pathfinder folks, but also to people who don't play Pathfinder, or even D&D. You will get people who play all sorts of game systems purchasing the material and adapting it to their own games. This is a big win, because I am sure that after all of this time and all of these delays, Lone Wolf is chomping at the bit to see some cash flow!

Oh, and on a personal note - I want the Grand Temple of Jing as soon as possible! I have plans for that place! Bwahahaha!

Last edited by Daelda; October 18th, 2016 at 04:54 PM. Reason: clairity
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rob
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Old October 18th, 2016, 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daplunk View Post
How will RW > HL integration be handled in situations where the *.user file has not been released to the user?

I know we can embed portfolios in RW but they still require the underlying *.user file to pre-exist in Hero Lab in order for the content to work.

Lets say a new monster book is released via RW. Does that then come with the HL user file? Will installation be possible on HL for the purchased content within RW?
You should never be sharing ".user" files directly. You should be generating an export file to contain those files. Once you do that, the user just double-clicks that file and HL sucks it in and does the right things with it automagically.

So...

All you need to do is add a single "Foreign Object" snippet to the entry point topic for your exported RW content. This snippet is assigned the HL file you created above. And you can include some GM Directions atop that snippet to tell users what the file is and does, along with instructions to just launch the file from within RW. When the user does that, HL gets launched and the file gets sucked in.

Everything is ready to go, and it just requires a single snippet be added to your content!
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