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kaintheseeker
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Old March 12th, 2018, 08:51 AM
I’ve been a HL user forever.. with most major systems, aside from storyteller, having bought in part.

I use HL along with my Paizo subscriptions to play a variety of characters I most likely could plan out by hand nearly as easy. Some I play for home or PFS, others I post on my blog to offer ideas for others (1st, 4th , 7th and12th) for PFS play.

HLO doesn’t let me copy a character multiple times in a portfolio like the iPad and Desktop versions. It’s always throwing up alerts and reconnecting to the next and I can’t QUITE resize it for my screen. It doesn’t generate summaries of the schedule or offer a print option that I can find

I don’t NOT like it but I much prefer the option of the desktop/iPad apps

I’ve spent gobs of cash on packs for multiple systems and I can say this.. I will NOT buy packs and pay for a subscription to keep access to them.

I’d much prefer, for design and access purposes, to still be able to use my iPad and computers without the mandatory use of HLO moving forward

As a VL in PFS I have heard several players likewise say they don’t like buying data packs and having to pay a subscription as well.
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Azhrei
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Old March 12th, 2018, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by DeltaMasterMind View Post
All this speculation, oh my!
Heh, this is the Internet. This is what drives us!

Quote:
I remember the creators saying that the action economy in their eyes will be "easier, yet still have 3 parts" similar to Standard Move and Swift actions. Hell it may just require a simple renaming update to all the packages and boom you are running 2.0!
It won't be that easy.

My guess is that in order to support multiple attacks per round, they'll have some scheme whereby you use one "action" for a single attack, or two "actions" to gain iterative attacks. In other words, each type of activity will require one, two, or three "actions", but you can choose to split them up however you want during your turn.

Of course, no one knows outside of Paizo right now. When August rolls around, I'll be grabbing the PDF and might even run my group through one of the adventures, if I can convince them. Many of them are like me and will be dragged kicking and screaming into the future!
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ShadowChemosh
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Old March 12th, 2018, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Azhrei View Post
My guess is that in order to support multiple attacks per round, they'll have some scheme whereby you use one "action" for a single attack, or two "actions" to gain iterative attacks. In other words, each type of activity will require one, two, or three "actions", but you can choose to split them up however you want during your turn.
A whole blog exists plus the podcast examples exist of how this will work. Its very similar to the Unchained Action Economy system that came out in Pathfinder Unchained.

Other than spells each attack is one action but some spells are only one actinon. Meaning yes you can sometimes get two spells off on your turn. An example of this is even done in the podcast. This also means level 1 you can attack three times if you wish and don't need to move. Each attack is at an additional -5 penalty (0/-5/-10).

Personally I moved my games to this system soon after Unchained came out. I love it! It really opens up some fun possibilities. It takes a few houserules to get right in PF1 but with PF2 being built from the ground up to use it will fix those issues.

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
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Asandir
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Old March 12th, 2018, 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh View Post
A whole blog exists plus the podcast examples exist of how this will work. Its very similar to the Unchained Action Economy system that came out in Pathfinder Unchained.

Other than spells each attack is one action but some spells are only one actinon. Meaning yes you can sometimes get two spells off on your turn. An example of this is even done in the podcast. This also means level 1 you can attack three times if you wish and don't need to move. Each attack is at an additional -5 penalty (0/-5/-10).

Personally I moved my games to this system soon after Unchained came out. I love it! It really opens up some fun possibilities. It takes a few houserules to get right in PF1 but with PF2 being built from the ground up to use it will fix those issues.
Can you share what those are? The houserules you defined?

Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
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ShadowChemosh
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Old March 12th, 2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Asandir View Post
Can you share what those are? The houserules you defined?
Sure HERE you go. Please note these where mostly needed to fit into the PF1 rules and define some stuff like how conditions work. But our group also wanted to give casters more feeling of doing "spells" every round and we like easier access to some healing.

Hero Lab Resources:
Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup
3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup
5E D&D - Community Server Setup
Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources.
Created by the community for the community
- Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.
- d20 HL package volunteer editor.
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Fuzzy
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Old March 13th, 2018, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamz View Post
Along those lines, I would think that if PF was on HLO, they could then drop iPad logic/support as the iPad could just use the HLO? Although you loose offline unless they change that...

For offline, why not package up an application build that is basically the "server" logic and the UI would just be a "Web view" to that localhost? Then you have one code base? Take the Discord app as an example, it's simply a web application, and the OS install is really just installing a custom Chromium build displaying the web app. (ok, not the exact same thing but...)

All in all, their are ways to solve offline use unless they really have other motives to force users to use web browser/server.


Also, I really don't see myself throwing away a couple hundred dollars of Hero Lab investment and probably won't invest in any more data packages until I know where we are heading (and I'm not putting that all on LW, but I assume they know more than us from Paizon). I would consider paying 35$ for Pathfinder 2.0 IF my current source material came over with it from Pathfinder 1.0. Or a nominal "transfer" fee if those data packages needed changes because of 2.0. (if a book only had some feats and spells in it, and feats and spells still have the same format in 2.0, then I see no reason why I can't use it with 2.0).

I'm going out on an assumption that Pazio does NOT want us to throw away our 1.0 source material and it will be largely compatible (outside of statblocks).
I asked about them developing a local server based web version many MANY years ago, and the answer then was that Too many people play in internet-lacking environments for a web-anything version.. now that they DO have a web based version, it's online only. Rather frustrating.
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Fuzzy
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Old March 13th, 2018, 04:00 PM
Regarding PF2. at least from the initial perception, it appears to, overall, be more mechanically consistent - which might lead to the actual hero lab implementation being much simpler than PF1.
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RavenX
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Old March 13th, 2018, 05:28 PM
Reserve judgment until the final release is out. Playtests are not indicative of what the finished product will be. D&D 5E changed a lot over the course of playtesting and the end result was nothing like the original playtest packets they released.

RavenX

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kaintheseeker
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Old March 14th, 2018, 10:36 AM
Looking at the fact I can’t acess my starfinder characters right now, due to a 503 error, I REALLY don’t want PF2 strictly hlo. I wouldn’t want to be running at a con and have this happen and I have in the past used my HL classic to build up NPCs to use in play.

You can’t fluidly slip between characters like you can in classic or to a lesser extent in the iPad version
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Azhrei
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Old March 14th, 2018, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by RavenX View Post
Reserve judgment until the final release is out. Playtests are not indicative of what the finished product will be. D&D 5E changed a lot over the course of playtesting and the end result was nothing like the original playtest packets they released.
While that's true perhaps for D&D 5e, there were not that many changes from the Pathfinder Beta release to the Final release. They tweaked combat maneuvers (it seems a right of passage for any revision of the D&D3 rules to tweak how grapple works!!) and a few of the classes (added some sorcerer bloodlines, IIRC), but they were about 90-95% the same.

One company's handling of playtests != another company's handling of the same thing!
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