Errors and assumptions found in L5R 5.0

--- In cardvault@yahoogroups.com, Kuni Tetsu <kuni_tetsu@y...> wrote:
>
> --- Alex Durden <hunter.rose@a...> wrote:
> > Yes, I'm incredibly anal. The Scorpion boarded Scorpion Ninja
> > personalities grouping into their own faction away from the
> > Scorpion drives me nuts too, but there's nothing I can do about
> > that.
>
> If they are scorpion bordered, then likely they are scorpions also.
> They can belong to both factions. So you are saying that there are
> scorpions that do not have the scorpion faction?

No, the cards are coded perfectly. It's just that, since I sort my
cards Type/Faction/Card Name, and Ninja comes before Scorpion in the
alphabet, my Scorpion Clan Ninjas are actually between the Mantis and
the Phoenix on the list. Same with the Dragon Clan Monks ending up
before the Crab and Crane in the list. Without adding yet another
trait to the files (Border, which while I'm sure would be also handy
for those cards that were printed with different faction borders,
would probably make you and Rob start banging your heads on the
monitor), I just have to put up with the fact that the cards in the
program are not sorted the same way as in my box.


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[rob]

Thank you for providing a thorough answer. I think I'm finally starting to
grasp this particular issue. I just need to clarify one additional thing to
be absolutely certain. What about non-"job" traits? Are those equally
ignored for all but personalities? For example, the Naga Bushi is a
follower with the Naga trait. From your description below, this card
receives NO faction association whatsoever. It merely has the Naga trait.
Is this correct?

-Rob

At 04:49 AM 8/20/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Oh boy. In short, the only card types that have "implied" factions
>from traits are Personalities and Ancestors. For all other cards
>types, the only thing that would "imply" a faction would be the text
>"may only be played by a (faction) player" or "may only attach to a
>(faction) personality". If you want the full reasoning, brace
>yourself, 'cause here it goes. Welcome to the weirdness that is
>produced by eight years of rules backlog.
>
>The only card types that have an actual Faction are personalities
>(peeps for short), since that's the only hard coded (i.e. rulebook)
>card type where it will come into play (there are advantages to
>playing personalites of your chosen faction). This trait was
>originally expressed as "(faction name here) Clan". Ancestors have
>the exact same text, and since they can only be used with peeps of
>that same faction, they're usually listed as that faction in card
>data. Similarly, cards that could only be used by a player or peep
>of
>that faction got the same treatment as ancestors.
>
>In the beginning, with every expansion, they added new factions. To
>make it so that factions weren't behind in the personality pool, some
>factions were created from peeps that had a common trait, a "job"
>trait so to speak. Brotherhood was made up of monk peeps, Yogo
>Junzo's Army (now Shadowalands Horde) was shadowlands peeps, Ninja
>from ninja peeps. The "jobs" became faction traits. The cards never
>said "Brotherhood Clan Monk" or "Ninja Clan Ninja", they stayed
>"Monk"
>and "Ninja". Thus a faction was born fully into the game with a
>slighyly larger card pool then if they just had thier expansion to
>draw from. These traits are still used today, even when some of
>these
>factions are no longer legal choices in the play environment.
>
>Unfortunately for your automation project, their are, and will
>continue to be, cards that still use the "job" traits as just that,
>and have no bearing on a Faction. Prophets are just followers with
>the Monk trait, not Brotherhood Clan followers. Oblivion's Gate just
>happens to be a Shadowlands card, any faction can play it, and the
>Shadowlands faction gets no special benefit out of it by strict
>definition of the rules (other than the cardinal rule of all CCGs:
>The
>Cards Get to Break the Rules.) Some cards might play off the "job"
>trait, but they won't play off it as a faction trait.
>
>Is that a satifactory answer?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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--- Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com> wrote:
> Thank you for providing a thorough answer. I think I'm finally
> starting to
> grasp this particular issue. I just need to clarify one additional
> thing to
> be absolutely certain. What about non-"job" traits? Are those
> equally
> ignored for all but personalities? For example, the Naga Bushi is a
>
> follower with the Naga trait. From your description below, this
> card
> receives NO faction association whatsoever. It merely has the Naga
> trait.
> Is this correct?

Kinda. Functionally correct, even if theoretically wrong. It can be
interpreted as having a faction trait, but it NEVER IS, because the
game is designed in a way where all cards that specify faction traits
specify Personalities. Basically there is no use at all in specifying
faction in CardVault for those cards.

> -Rob
>


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> Oh boy. In short, the only card types that have "implied" factions
>
> from traits are Personalities and Ancestors.

Everything else you said was correct, but I think Sensei also have
faction traits, no?

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--- Jimmy Jinx <jimmy_jinx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Oh boy. In short, the only card types that have "implied" factions
> >
> > from traits are Personalities and Ancestors.
>
> Everything else you said was correct, but I think Sensei also have
> faction traits, no?

I certainly put them in the database that way in the past... And they can be
*all* factions, although most are only a couple.



=====
---

Kuni Tetsu
Clan War rules guy
Moderator of ClanWar-l

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--- In cardvault@yahoogroups.com, Kuni Tetsu <kuni_tetsu@y...> wrote:
>
> --- Jimmy Jinx <jimmy_jinx@y...> wrote:
> >
> > > Oh boy. In short, the only card types that have "implied"
> > > factions from traits are Personalities and Ancestors.
> >
> > Everything else you said was correct, but I think Sensei also have
> > faction traits, no?
>
> I certainly put them in the database that way in the past... And
> they can be *all* factions, although most are only a couple.

Most are actually several, I'd say five or six. I see no other way to
do it, and no reason to change it. It's not like you can force it
into Setup, since it counts as part your fate deck.


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