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daplunk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 2,257

Old September 4th, 2020, 04:43 PM
Opening from Rob:

NOTE! Due to our antiquated forums not allowing me to move posts from one thread to another AND keep my initial post in this thread at the top, I'm stuck having to edit the first migrated post. That certainly is not my desire, but it's the only option I appear to have.

I have created this thread as a separate and more suitable thread for Realm Works users who are choosing to vent in the HLO forum. Except for the "segue" in daplunk's initial post below and one additional comment, the rest are simply RW users venting, so all the posts have been moved here. For context, this thread kicks in after post #44 in the thread here: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=64521

Based on daplunk's initial post, he rightly wants me to engage in this forum, and I read his post as a plea for me to do that. So mission accomplished, you've got my attention. However, some of the subsequent comments struck a bad chord with me, and I won't be responding immediately to ensure that I don't let emotions cloud my words. I will get back to this thread sometime over the 3-day weekend here in the States. In the meantime, you can share further thoughts here if you choose.

And now for @daplunk's original post...


Sounds like a familiar story. I can see a familiar community forming behind you again in hope.

We all know how it already ended for the Realm Works corner though. We stood behind you for years through the copious issues LWD and you have personally endured. You got to a point where you were finally ready to launch the ability to make some money and the next minute you pull the rug out from below our feet and drop support altogether.

I honestly wouldn't be that mad if you hadn't patched in a tool breaking bug. Sure you promised to fix it back what a year ago? Whats the status of that fix?

I can't understand how a company who I saw in such a positive light is just so comfortable with releasing the store and selling customers content that relies on the RW/HLC functionality and then breaking it and then just leaving us to rot in the corner. You sold us import packs and then left the ability to import broken.

Where are you Rob? Because the Rob I know, cared so much about his products and his community that he would have dedicated the time to fix the issue he introduced.

At this point you have solely put LWD on the red list for me. Not to be trusted until they can prove they have the management and team ready to support the promises they make. And this post is writing on the wall for me. A story we have seen before and an outcome that will in this case leave people angry. You can't continue to run a server only solution on your pc after-all.

You will probably get angry over this post. But lets be honest. I communicated this to you via the private channels and the crickets gave a resounding answer of lack of care.

The RW community want to know what you are going to resolve the bugs you implemented Rob. Why don't you pop on over and let us know when that may occur.

I wish i could have moved on from LWD altogether. But the old Rob made great tools and the competition hasn't quite caught up to you yet.

Realm Works - Community Links
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Ream Works Facebook User Group
Realm Works - Community Content List
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D&D 5e Community Pack - Contributor
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Last edited by rob; September 5th, 2020 at 01:59 PM.
daplunk is offline   #1 Reply With Quote
Jaynay27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 119

Old September 4th, 2020, 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daplunk View Post
Sounds like a familiar story. I can see a familiar community forming behind you again in hope.

We all know how it already ended for the Realm Works corner though. We stood behind you for years through the copious issues LWD and you have personally endured. You got to a point where you were finally ready to launch the ability to make some money and the next minute you pull the rug out from below our feet and drop support altogether.

I honestly wouldn't be that mad if you hadn't patched in a tool breaking bug. Sure you promised to fix it back what a year ago? Whats the status of that fix?

I can't understand how a company who I saw in such a positive light is just so comfortable with releasing the store and selling customers content that relies on the RW/HLC functionality and then breaking it and then just leaving us to rot in the corner. You sold us import packs and then left the ability to import broken.

Where are you Rob? Because the Rob I know, cared so much about his products and his community that he would have dedicated the time to fix the issue he introduced.

At this point you have solely put LWD on the red list for me. Not to be trusted until they can prove they have the management and team ready to support the promises they make. And this post is writing on the wall for me. A story we have seen before and an outcome that will in this case leave people angry. You can't continue to run a server only solution on your pc after-all.

You will probably get angry over this post. But lets be honest. I communicated this to you via the private channels and the crickets gave a resounding answer of lack of care.

The RW community want to know what you are going to resolve the bugs you implemented Rob. Why don't you pop on over and let us know when that may occur.

I wish i could have moved on from LWD altogether. But the old Rob made great tools and the competition hasn't quite caught up to you yet.
I could not agree more with this post.

I love Herolab Classic and bought a ton of content for it.
I loved the idea of RW and was a kickstarter backer with lifetime access.

I even kinda like HLO, but after my subscription lapsed I wasn't too quick to renew it. we had a game last night and I levelled up, thinking I better renew my subscription now, but the more I thought about it, the more I just realised I am going to look for other solutions. I discussed it with the other players and they all pretty much agreed with me regarding their feelings towards LWD.

I was a champion for LWD. I spread the word and generated sales. so sad to see how the mighty have fallen. My only wish now was there was a site like DnD Beyond but for pathfinder. Its not perfect, but I like the business model more and can just buy what I want. And I bought everything from them. Those $$$ could have gone to LWD, but sadly I too have lost faith in the company.
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Madmaxneo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 195

Old September 4th, 2020, 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daplunk View Post
Sounds like a familiar story. I can see a familiar community forming behind you again in hope.

We all know how it already ended for the Realm Works corner though. We stood behind you for years through the copious issues LWD and you have personally endured. You got to a point where you were finally ready to launch the ability to make some money and the next minute you pull the rug out from below our feet and drop support altogether.

I honestly wouldn't be that mad if you hadn't patched in a tool breaking bug. Sure you promised to fix it back what a year ago? Whats the status of that fix?

I can't understand how a company who I saw in such a positive light is just so comfortable with releasing the store and selling customers content that relies on the RW/HLC functionality and then breaking it and then just leaving us to rot in the corner. You sold us import packs and then left the ability to import broken.

Where are you Rob? Because the Rob I know, cared so much about his products and his community that he would have dedicated the time to fix the issue he introduced.

At this point you have solely put LWD on the red list for me. Not to be trusted until they can prove they have the management and team ready to support the promises they make. And this post is writing on the wall for me. A story we have seen before and an outcome that will in this case leave people angry. You can't continue to run a server only solution on your pc after-all.

You will probably get angry over this post. But lets be honest. I communicated this to you via the private channels and the crickets gave a resounding answer of lack of care.

The RW community want to know what you are going to resolve the bugs you implemented Rob. Why don't you pop on over and let us know when that may occur.

I wish i could have moved on from LWD altogether. But the old Rob made great tools and the competition hasn't quite caught up to you yet.
I agree so much, but it hurts. RW is such a great program still and leagues better than any competition out there right now. Maybe one day they will catch up.
I missed the Kickstarter but was quick to purchase it when I discovered how awesome it was. Then with all the awesome things you had planned I thought this was the program that would be everything I ever needed for my games. Now things have changed and it seems many of the promises will never be delivered. Now I dread the day that RW stops working for me and I hope someone comes out with something that is more comparable possibly with the ability to port my data from RW into a different tool.

On the flip side I do hope this not getting updates for RW is not an indication that Rob's health is deteriorating and may end badly. I hope and pray that is not the case.

GM of HARP, Rolemaster, Spacemaster, D&D 5thed, Savage Worlds, and Firefly (Cortex system).
Software I use for gaming: Realm Works, Inspiration Pad Pro, Ebon, Xara Photo and Graphic Designer 10, DAZ3D, Bryce, Hexagon, Maptools, Mote, MS Word, MS Excel.
Have access to: CC2, Dundjinni, Adobe cloud apps.
Programming experience: Java and Javascript (Maptools and PDF programming).

Last edited by Madmaxneo; September 4th, 2020 at 07:54 PM. Reason: Didn't finish
Madmaxneo is offline   #3 Reply With Quote
Ualaa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada.
Posts: 701

Old September 4th, 2020, 09:19 PM
Kind of torn too.

Hero Lab classic, for Pathfinder 1e.
Absolutely love that product, and use it massively and constantly.
Especially with the Spheres of Power, Spheres of Might and Path of War stuff, so love the 3pp support that is possible with the system.

I'd subscribe to Hero Lab Online, if it had the Pathfinder 1e system with similar 3pp support.
A few bucks a month isn't massive on the user's end, but a lot of us doing that would put reliable revenue into Lone Wolf's hands each month.

I bought Realm Works on what it could it do, not on what was promised during the Kickstarter.
I knew the product and based largely on Joshua Plunkett's videos bought the program.
I'm mostly happy with it, and use it extensively.
That bug, where a saved RW portfolio (my adventure) cannot be integrated into a running 64-bit Hero Lab... well that is massively annoying.
The fix is to not store the encounters in Realm Works, but rather just on my DropBox so they're easy to add to the portfolio with the characters in it.
It would have been nice to be able to use that RW interaction; I bought all the Bestiary's for RW, having already owned them for HLC, specifically for that functionality.

I like RW enough, that if our group runs an adventure path that has RW stuff, I'll buy it without hesitation.
But that bug is annoying and it would be great if it was squashed at some point.
Ualaa is offline   #4 Reply With Quote
Ambush
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 113

Old September 4th, 2020, 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daplunk View Post
Sounds like a familiar story. I can see a familiar community forming behind you again in hope.

We all know how it already ended for the Realm Works corner though. We stood behind you for years through the copious issues LWD and you have personally endured. You got to a point where you were finally ready to launch the ability to make some money and the next minute you pull the rug out from below our feet and drop support altogether.

I honestly wouldn't be that mad if you hadn't patched in a tool breaking bug. Sure you promised to fix it back what a year ago? Whats the status of that fix?

I can't understand how a company who I saw in such a positive light is just so comfortable with releasing the store and selling customers content that relies on the RW/HLC functionality and then breaking it and then just leaving us to rot in the corner. You sold us import packs and then left the ability to import broken.

Where are you Rob? Because the Rob I know, cared so much about his products and his community that he would have dedicated the time to fix the issue he introduced.

At this point you have solely put LWD on the red list for me. Not to be trusted until they can prove they have the management and team ready to support the promises they make. And this post is writing on the wall for me. A story we have seen before and an outcome that will in this case leave people angry. You can't continue to run a server only solution on your pc after-all.

You will probably get angry over this post. But lets be honest. I communicated this to you via the private channels and the crickets gave a resounding answer of lack of care.

The RW community want to know what you are going to resolve the bugs you implemented Rob. Why don't you pop on over and let us know when that may occur.

I wish i could have moved on from LWD altogether. But the old Rob made great tools and the competition hasn't quite caught up to you yet.
Amen.

I think the most frustrating part for me is how long I held onto the hope that LW would support the people that supported them. The people that promoted the products, encouraged other people to support the kickstarter, devoted countless hours to helping LW's customers, because LW was busy doing other things. And then *poof*, what little support we had was gone, announced in another product's forum.

Sadly, I hadn't even thought about LW all that much lately, given that I find RW to be so painfully slow that it's all but unusable for me. That is, right up until they had the audacity to try and hit me up for more money for a product that they never finished after they already took my money on and then abandoned.

Nah. I'm good for now.

DM, exRealmWorker, Character Sheet Hacker, Gamer
Ambush is offline   #5 Reply With Quote
Greebo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 276

Old September 4th, 2020, 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daplunk View Post
Sounds like a familiar story. I can see a familiar community forming behind you again in hope.

We all know how it already ended for the Realm Works corner though. We stood behind you for years through the copious issues LWD and you have personally endured. You got to a point where you were finally ready to launch the ability to make some money and the next minute you pull the rug out from below our feet and drop support altogether.

I honestly wouldn't be that mad if you hadn't patched in a tool breaking bug. Sure you promised to fix it back what a year ago? Whats the status of that fix?

I can't understand how a company who I saw in such a positive light is just so comfortable with releasing the store and selling customers content that relies on the RW/HLC functionality and then breaking it and then just leaving us to rot in the corner. You sold us import packs and then left the ability to import broken.

Where are you Rob? Because the Rob I know, cared so much about his products and his community that he would have dedicated the time to fix the issue he introduced.

At this point you have solely put LWD on the red list for me. Not to be trusted until they can prove they have the management and team ready to support the promises they make. And this post is writing on the wall for me. A story we have seen before and an outcome that will in this case leave people angry. You can't continue to run a server only solution on your pc after-all.

You will probably get angry over this post. But lets be honest. I communicated this to you via the private channels and the crickets gave a resounding answer of lack of care.

The RW community want to know what you are going to resolve the bugs you implemented Rob. Why don't you pop on over and let us know when that may occur.

I wish i could have moved on from LWD altogether. But the old Rob made great tools and the competition hasn't quite caught up to you yet.
Absolutely. Same here.

As the things currently are, I am only lingering on until one of the quite actively developing competitors closes in enough and provides me with an import tool for my data.


Supporting Calendar Campaigner

Tools: Realm Works, Campaign Cartographer 3+ and Add-ons, MapTools
Games: home brew world, Lord of the Rings (CODA), Shadowrun, Earthdawn
Greebo is online now   #6 Reply With Quote
Valyar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 333

Old September 5th, 2020, 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daplunk View Post
Sounds like a familiar story. I can see a familiar community forming behind you again in hope.

We all know how it already ended for the Realm Works corner though. We stood behind you for years through the copious issues LWD and you have personally endured. You got to a point where you were finally ready to launch the ability to make some money and the next minute you pull the rug out from below our feet and drop support altogether.

I honestly wouldn't be that mad if you hadn't patched in a tool breaking bug. Sure you promised to fix it back what a year ago? Whats the status of that fix?

I can't understand how a company who I saw in such a positive light is just so comfortable with releasing the store and selling customers content that relies on the RW/HLC functionality and then breaking it and then just leaving us to rot in the corner. You sold us import packs and then left the ability to import broken.

Where are you Rob? Because the Rob I know, cared so much about his products and his community that he would have dedicated the time to fix the issue he introduced.

At this point you have solely put LWD on the red list for me. Not to be trusted until they can prove they have the management and team ready to support the promises they make. And this post is writing on the wall for me. A story we have seen before and an outcome that will in this case leave people angry. You can't continue to run a server only solution on your pc after-all.

You will probably get angry over this post. But lets be honest. I communicated this to you via the private channels and the crickets gave a resounding answer of lack of care.

The RW community want to know what you are going to resolve the bugs you implemented Rob. Why don't you pop on over and let us know when that may occur.

I wish i could have moved on from LWD altogether. But the old Rob made great tools and the competition hasn't quite caught up to you yet.
I can't say it better. Amen!

Realm Works is the tool that transformed by hobby life forever and helped me tremendously to improve my trade as game master. It sparked back the love for running a game by providing this single-source of reference and rules that I can use, removing the painful necessity to have many PDFs/books opened during session.

Today, Realm Works is the best campaign manager and I am heavily using it until its very end. I will not move to something else until it exists and is technically possible to run it.

I understand the business problems and how they can impact the product, but there is no excuse for the deadly and painful silence from LWD, that definitely stopped me to further advertise the product as I did before.

Nothing is lost completely, you can make this tool great again. None of your competition is there yet, but the moment someone decides to provide offline and no subscription based product, it is over. Please, don't allow that. There are many ways to get revenue and I own many programs that require paid upgrades between major versions and this is completely fine!

PS: I still pay the yearly cloud subscription with single machine. I am that supportive.

The past is a rudder to guide us, not an anchor to hold us back.
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lancealittle
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 15

Old September 5th, 2020, 02:58 AM
Sad to say we have been left out in the cold.
Rob needs to either put a few hours a week into RW, or sell it to someone who would...
Keeping thousands of users in limbo just isnt right - we want RW to be actively supported again.
Quit screwing us Rob, we aren't going away !
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ruhar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Langley, WA, USA
Posts: 602

Old September 5th, 2020, 03:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daplunk View Post
Sounds like a familiar story. I can see a familiar community forming behind you again in hope.

We all know how it already ended for the Realm Works corner though. We stood behind you for years through the copious issues LWD and you have personally endured. You got to a point where you were finally ready to launch the ability to make some money and the next minute you pull the rug out from below our feet and drop support altogether.

<SNIP>

I wish I could have moved on from LWD altogether. But the old Rob made great tools and the competition hasn't quite caught up to you yet.
I completely agree. I stood behind LWD and Rob even when people were starting to complain. I talked to Rob at GenCon, he was very helpful in explaining how to do things in RW. I was so impressed that I often held my tongue and even gave my support during disagreements. Then out of the blue Rob kills everything. Dead.

RW is still a great program and I still use it. But my loyalty to LWD and to Rob is dead. We all believed and supported the dream. As GMs, we do a lot of work to create the sessions we run. We deserve some help with the process and RW did that. But Rob killed it. We still use RW because it's still good. But in time, something better with better support will come along. When that day comes RW will fade away.
ruhar is offline   #9 Reply With Quote
nightpanda2810
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 174

Old September 5th, 2020, 05:23 PM
Adding my 2 cents. Pretty much agree with everyone's post. I still use RW and will until I can't anymore, or something else comes out that actually works similarly. The automatic linking IMO is the most useful part. I've found nothing that even comes close.

Please, bring back some support!

Realmworks Template Management
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